Oops All Sports! With Jasper Cartwright

Games and Feelings is an advice podcast about being human and loving all types of games: video games, tabletop games, party games, laser tag, escape rooms, game streams, and anything else that we play for fun. Join Question Keeper Eric Silver and a revolving cast of guests as they answer your questions at the intersection of fun and humanity, since, you know, you gotta play games with other people. Whether you need a game recommendation, need to sort out a dispute at the table, or decide whether an activity is good for a date, we’re your instruction manual. New episodes drop every other Friday.

Transcript

ERIC: Here we go. 5, 4—

ERIC and JASPER: 3, 2, 1.

JASPER: Thunderbirds are a go. I can't believe it's taken me this long to make that reference. That's wild.

ERIC: No, Jasper. This is the sports episode. We have to be cool.

JASPER: Oh, shit! Sorry. I meant “throw the pig!”

ERIC: Toss it!

JASPER: Toss— oh, that's it. Toss the pig!

ERIC: The pig— pass the pig. It's—

JASPER: I don't know. That's what you call it. Isn’t it the pig skin?

ERIC: The pig skin—

JASPER: Or something?

ERIC: —but not the pig.

JASPER: No. Uh, just throw a policeman. That's what I meant.

[theme song plays]

ERIC: Oy, bruv, hello!

JASPER: [laughs] Uh, you can't start it with that energy and not expect me to—

ERIC: No, I like it.

JASPER: —to not respond until you introduce me.

ERIC: I did it— [Jasper laughs] I did it intentionally. Hello, sports fans, and welcome to Games and Feelings, an advice show about playing games, being human, dealing with the fact that those games involve other humans. ‘Oops All Sports!’ edition.

JASPER: Yes!

ERIC: Ahh.

JASPER: I'm so excited to bro out right now.

ERIC: Just bro out. We're gonna be so much more accepting than the nerds that

are usually on this podcast.

JASPER: Yup.

ERIC: That's where we're at.

JASPER: That’s—

ERIC: The sports guys are nicer.

JASPER: That's exactly where we're at. It will be so wholesome.

ERIC: We're even more welcoming than we were before.

JASPER: Yup.

ERIC: I'm your host and question keeper - get it? Keeper, like in soccer - —

JASPER: Yeah, very good.

ERIC: —Eric Silver. And if I could name a Minor League sports team for my hometown, it would be the Goldens Bridge Swarm. I'm from a small town in upstate New York called Goldens Bridge, and I really love a singular group of things name like the Heat, uh, so the Swarm.

JASPER: Mmmm.

ERIC: Uh, and also because, uh, there was a major train line that went through my hometown. Swarm could also be like a crowd of people trying to get on a train. [Jasper laughs] So you can imagine—

JASPER: Yeah, it works.

ERIC: Yeah, you—

JASPER: That's exactly why they called— that's why they call it the Swarm, right?

ERIC: Yeah, that's why they call it the Swarm. So, like, our kit— we could have, like, a special kit or a uniform night that's, like— has all the people on it or it's, like, train— a lot of— train themed one.

JASPER: Mmm. Or it should be like everyone has a crowd of people and then one of the players has, like, a train on it. And it's like everyone can c— then they all can come together for a picture and it looks like two sides of the platform trying to get on one train. I actually think I've just invented something revolutionary for sports jerseys.

ERIC: That would be cool. I think that would be really cool.

JASPER: Wow.

ERIC: I mean, because if it was like—

JASPER: We should be making art with— uh, with our tops. That would be great.

ERIC: Oh, of course. I think that— I mean, so many sports have, like, one specific dude who's different. So if this was hockey—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: —or baseball, or soccer, then we could definitely, yeah, have that happen. Like imagine the keepers g—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —uniform that's a train—

JASPER: Got the train on it.

ERIC: —that'd be so scary.

JASPER: Got the train on it. That'd be so cool. I love it. I love it so much.

ERIC: Oy, bruv, Jasper Cartwright, if— if you could make a minor league or lower tier football team, uh, named after your hometown, what would it be?

JASPER: I'd call it the Horsham Horses, um—

ERIC: Nice.

JASPER: —because fun fact about Horsham, which is where I grew up. It is, uh, almost exactly in between London and Brighton.

ERIC: Hmm.

JASPER: Back in ye olden times, uh, Horsham was a little stop that you would, uh, stop at, rest the night and rest your horses if you're traveling between these two places. So that's why it became Horsham, because that's where everyone stopped with their horses. So, I'd call it the Horsham Horses. Boom, mic drop.

ERIC: I like that. I wonder if you guys could be like the Innkeepers.

JASPER: Ooh, the Innkeepers, that's even better.

ERIC: Right.

JASPER: The problem is, is that I'm not in that— like even calling the Horsham Horses felt too much. Like in the UK, we look over at your— the naming convention for your sports teams—

ERIC: Oh, okay.

JASPER: —in the US, and we think you're insane.

ERIC: Can I ask you some questions—

JASPER: Like, the Rapids?

ERIC: —about this?

JASPER: The— [Eric laughs] the, like, Heat? Like all of it, it's like, "What are you saying?" Like, it's just— it's insane. Like, just call— where are you from? That's your name. Why are you the Colts?

ERIC: Well, can I ask you—

JASPER: What do you mean Colts?

ERIC: —can I ask you a question? Because this popped up recently.

JASPER: Is there a— is there a New Jersey Buttons? Like what do you— stop. Like, what's— what's—

ERIC: As a new fan of the New Jersey Devils, you bite your tongue, Jasper. [Jasper giggles] Uh, can I ask you a question? This actually popped up—

JASPER: Yeah, please.

ERIC: —because— I mean, we're recording this a few weeks ahead. But, uh, Messi is now going to play in the MLS.

JASPER: I can't believe that it's finally happened. Uh, congratulations to the MLS. Your lives are about to change. Um—

ERIC: It— it really is just like what happens to the MLS, Major League Soccer, where the most popular guy who's kind of old now, like who is the absolute shining star GOAT of the— of— of soccer is coming over the MLS, once he's old.

JASPER: But I want you to know, though, that Lionel Messi, old, is three times as good as anyone else in your league currently.

ERIC: No, I— that's a hundred percent true but, like, you know, David Beck—

JASPER: He's so good.

ERIC: But Beckham did it, like— I mean, Pele did it—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —notoriously in the '70s—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —uh, coming over for the—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —New York Cosmos, which kind of kicked off American soccer in so many different ways.

JASPER: Zlatan did it and came back, which is wild.

ERIC: Zlatan— Zlatan was too busy, like, headbutting dudes.

JASPER: Zlatan did it, was like, "Ah, completed it." And went back to Europe.

ERIC: “Too busy being rich and good. I'm done with this.”

JASPER: Yeah. “I'm done with this.”

ERIC: Well, the whole thing about this— again, for— for context, uh, imagine LeBron James is like, "I'm done with the NBA. I'm gonna go to a place where they actually"— a burgeoning place where they love basketball. "I'm going to China." In—

JASPER: Yeah. Yeah.

ERIC: —that kind of way, with LeBron right now, even— he's gonna be so much better than everyone else, he's older, and he's still like the most famous person, but he's like, "I'm ready to go to a different country that likes this also."

JASPER: Dude, have you seen the reports about the contract?

ERIC: Yeah. Oh, it's— that he— he gets a cut.

JASPER: Wild. So, some of his money is coming directly from Apple.

ERIC: Yeah. Right, because Apple TV is—

JASPER: Uh—

ERIC: —showing MLS games, right?

JASPER: Yes, Apple TV.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: And so, he gets a cut of the revenue of games like In— Inter Miami and, like, other MLS games. Apparently, uh— uh, he gets a cut of every single Jersey sold, which, again, is not a thing.

ERIC: Yes. He gets a cut of Adidas.

JASPER: Uh—uh, and it's—

ERIC: He gets an Adidas cut. It's crazy.

JASPER: And he gets— uh, he gets an Adidas cut. He also— apparently, every single MLS franchise has paid in to make this happen.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Which means every other team has been like, "Look, we know that this basically guarantees you a win next year, and probably the year after, but we're gonna pay you because it means everyone gets richer." And when he retires, he will have the option - or the opportunity - to potentially buy an MLS franchise.

ERIC: That all makes sense to me, though. Like, honestly, that's not so—

JASPER: Crazy.

ERIC: —wild, because he's going to single-handedly prop up the entire league.

JASPER: Yeah. Oh, for sure. I think— don't get me wrong, it makes sense. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. And hey, look, Messi, get your money.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Like, I'm proud of you, dude. Go do it.

ERIC: You— for those who don't know, he's so famous. He's so famous.

JASPER: Oh. I genuinely don't think it's an exaggeration to say that in at least two continents, Lionel Messi is viewed as a godlike figure.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Like— and I'm saying it's like that level of like— it's not like famous like, "Oh, we love him." I'm talking— imagine the dude from Avatar foaming at the mouth and passing out. That's the reaction that Lionel Messi would invoke in South America and most parts of Europe. Like, I would freak out. Like, there isn't many people— like, I don't really get starstruck anymore, I would freak out if I met Lionel Messi.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: He is arguably the greatest of all time, and that's not an exaggeration. This dude changed the game and he is unbelievably good.

ERIC: It's so funny, I just— there's so few people who are so definitive in American sport.

JASPER: Mmm.

ERIC: Bec— I think ‘cause Americans also love arguing about who's the best in such a way—

JASPER: Sure.

ERIC: —that it doesn't even matter. Like—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: Because, you know, especially with, like, LeBron James, uh, Michael Jordan conversation, like, who cares? They— totally different times.

JASPER: Do you— okay. I have a question. I have a question for you.

ERIC: Right.

JASPER: Do you think there is something to do with the fact that American sports are almost, like, rooted in more of a statistical kind of analytical approach like— even like the foundations of how the games are played—

ERIC: Mmmm.

JASPER: —are kind of rooted in that stats. You know what I mean? So, like, with quarterbacks or with, like, you know, uh, basketball players, it's like, we can very much point to, like, how many three-pointers did they hit? How many— you know what I mean? Like, how many free throws did they miss? How many— do you know what I mean? It's like you can— whereas I feel like with Messi and Ronaldo, and kind of, like, greats of the past, because football is— you can obviously do the stats, you can look at it moneyball-wise and— whatever.

ERIC: Mmmm.

JASPER: But, like, ultimately, it's this— I don't know. It's like— it's very free-flowing and it's slightly more objective.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: I feel like that's what's led to it being less of a debate about like, "Oh, well, clearly, we can see X and Y." It's just like people just admire— that just watching this dude play. It's like no one else plays like Messi. He—

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: It's like watching, you know, uh—uh, a— a bird in flight. It's just like, "What?" Like— and I'm sure that there are players like that in American sports, but I feel like maybe they don't get looked at in the same way, maybe the way they should, because there is this, like, very analytical approach. Would you agree?

ERIC: Interesting. Uh, I think there are two separate things. One, it is—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: —if someone takes over a soccer game, and I'm going to keep saying—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —soccer because I think we will end up talking about football. So—

JASPER: Sure.

ERIC: So I want to just—

JASPER: Uh-huh.

ERIC: —keep it— keep that definitive. In where—

JASPER: Okay, sure.

ERIC: When we're talking about soccer, if someone takes over the game, that person is definitively— definitively the best person. And even if you're the best person on the— on the pitch, you are still—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —still probably not taking over the game. So, yes, you're a hundred— it is so definitive if someone is single-handedly winning a game for a team.

JASPER: Games.

ERIC: Especially because of how—

JASPER: Yeah, yeah.

ERIC: —low-scoring it is and yes the flow, and the beautiful game.

JASPER: Yup.

ERIC: The other thing, and to what you said about stats, especially— I mean, here's the thing about, uh, stats, it's like baseball and football are, like, indiv—

JASPER: Mmm.

ERIC: Each person is doing something individually that's happening at the same time, so which then created—

JASPER: Sure.

ERIC: —a statistical, like, analysis. In response, though, I think that some people are like, "Get these fucking nerds out of my sport," and then it becomes like people who are such in—

JASPER: Sure.

ERIC: It's— be— like a bicameral system, where it's like people—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: —who are just on gut and feeling as opposed to people who are just in their own brain. So, yes—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: —the answer is yes.

JASPER: Yeah. Okay.

ERIC: Like, both that and the— and the backlash to that, which is very American, I would think.

JASPER: Mmm. Yeah. Well, I was just kind of interested, especially being on the show, you know, talking about games and feelings, which is that like— you know, I've had a few— uh, Americans now go to like— I've been to a couple football games, soccer games with Americans who've come over, you know, and said, like, "Dude, I really wanna go see a game in the"— like, Premier League, or whatever, and we've gone and seen— and, like— and they've commented how, like, the atmosphere is different.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Like, it— like— and I wonder if it's— but I just feel like football is a very, like, feeling-based sport, like— you know what I mean? Like—

ERIC: Yes, for sure.

JASPER: —there's a lot of— there's a lot of things which are— like, coaches and things. Even at the top, top level of the game will say, "This isn't quantifiable." Like, these few things that will lead to a— like, the best team in the world suddenly collapsing and getting beaten by a minnow isn't—

ERIC: Mm-hmm.

JASPER: —quantifiable because we had all the possession. We had all the shots. We had all the— you know what I mean? But it just didn't result in the win or whatever it is. Whereas—

ERIC: To the— I wanna— I wanna put a pin in that—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: —as an example.

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: I mean, didn't recently, like, Brazil get absolutely shellacked in the— in the World Cup?

JASPER: Yeah, they got beaten by— no. Argentina got beaten by Saudi Arabia in the—

ERIC: That's what I'm thinking about, yes.

JASPER: Right at the beginning of the World Cup. And then Argentina went on to win the damn competition.

ERIC: Right. And it's the thing also about like getting— when you're talking about the World Cup, the best players from countries, like we're not even—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —talking about pro like, "Oh, draft distribution."

JASPER: No, no, no.

ERIC: The best players from countries then, uh, might—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —get destroyed by a— a smaller country that came out of nowhere.

JASPER: Yeah. And again, it's about like— you know, that team, the Argentina team was growing into the tournament. They had a bit of a changing of the old guard. They brought in a lot of new players, and everyone was kind of like— “they have all the talent, but, like, they just looked like a bit of a mess.” And this peppy little Saudi Arabian team was like, "We're gonna kill for each other."

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: You know what I mean? And they just won— and they won the game. And then Argentina was like, "Okay, I think this didn't work, this didn't work." And then suddenly, they were just like, "Oh, we're incredible now."

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: And so it was fine. But that kind of thing is, like, unquantifiable. There's no metric for it, which I think is what leads it to be kind of a very feelings-based game—

ERIC: Mm-hmm.

JASPER: —which I think is one of the reasons why I love it and think it's the best sport in the world, but—

ERIC: I agree. Can I ask you the question I was gonna ask before we ended up talking about all this? About— about—

JASPER: Absolutely, yeah.

ERIC: —the— the team names. Uh, the funny—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: The whole thing I was gonna say about Messi is that now he's coming to a team called Inter Miami, which means—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —nothing. Can you explain—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —the names Inter and United, and all of these, like, really super well-known soccer team names?

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: I have no idea what it's about and it's so funny that, like, America— MLS teams, American soccer teams are like, "Oh, we're just gonna grab that when that means absolutely nothing."

JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I— uh, see, that's actually kind of hilarious, because I've also said that about you and then I realized we have Tottenham Hotspur. Uh, bear in mind, I hate Tottenham Hotspur and I think it's a dumb name so, you know, it's fine. Um—

ERIC: Like, Hotspur was just, like, someone's last name, right?

JASPER: Yeah, yeah. Surely. Right. It was just a last name.

ERIC: Hilarious. Lord Hotspur. I'm— I'm guessing that that's like 80% of what it is, right?

JASPER: Probably.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: That's almost certainly what it is. Um, so I know with, like, United is an old one, which— which just was like a— you know, like, we're a team that is united, like that's the basis of it. Like, it's nothing deeper than that, but it's just been around for, like, hundreds of years, like that we call teams United. Um—

ERIC: Yeah. We're just all fr— we're all friends and we all went to work together at the mine and now, we're all—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —playing on the pitch together.

JASPER: I am actually going to look up— uh, so, basically, there's a club called Inter Milan and then there's also AC Milan, now, they actually share a football team.

ERIC: That's wild.

JASPER: I'm pretty sure the— okay. So AC Milan stands for Associazione Calcio Milan, which I actually have no idea what that means. I'm assuming it means like Club Milan effectively.

ERIC: It all just means F— it's all just football club. Like, everyone's just FC.

JASPER: Yeah. Everything is effectively FC. Yeah.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Um, what is horrible— so Inter Milan is one of the most historied and famous clubs. Now if you type “inter” into Google, Inter Milan comes up first.

ERIC: Instead of like Interpol or international?

JASPER: I— oh, okay, here we go. Okay. So, uh, inter actually is a shortened version of internazionale, which means— it's like international Milan.

ERIC: So— so imagine MLS team in Miami.

JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ERIC: Unless you're talking about—

JASPER: Internazionale Miami. It just doesn't sound the same.

ERIC: Yeah, we're talking about— uh— uh, we're talking about the large Cuban population in Miami, of course, and then also Messi—

JASPER: Mm-hmm, obviously.

ERIC: —who's now there. That's what makes it internazionale.

JASPER: Yeah. That's what that is. Um, but, yeah, so there's like— there's a lot of, uh, historic reasons as to why we have these slightly strange names that everyone seems to share, because they do share them a lot. And, actually, I've got to— just want— very quickly, and then we can get into questions and games that are giving us feelings and everything. I want to say Ryan Reynolds and Rob McElhenney might be evil geniuses who will run the world in a few years' time.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Because their most recent market— like their marketing campaigns are absolutely unbelievable. So, Ryan Reynolds, a couple of minutes ago, as of the time of recording this, tweeted, uh, a picture which said, "Wrexham United," on it, and people— the shit storm that this brewed up because people thought that they were changing the name to Wrexham United.

ERIC: Oh my God.

JASPER: And everyone lost their minds. Everyone was da, da, da, tweet, like, blah, blah, blah. And then 15 minutes after posting that original one, they posted a video of them being like, "Hey"— uh, like a fully produced video of being like, 'I'm so sorry, everyone. I just want to clarify, we're not changing the name. We missed an ampersand. It should have said Wrexham & United because they're our new shirts sponsor." And I was like, "You fucking geniuses." Like this is scary, how well you know your audience, because the football Twitter was like, "What the hell is this?" They were ready to go and fly to America to try and find, like, Ryan Reynolds and hunt him down.

ERIC: I'm convinced Ryan Reynolds was created in a lab to be, like, popular.

JASPER: Yeah, yeah, I'm fully—

ERIC: I don't think— I don't think there's anything going on behind the eyes, and this is from someone— I've seen the movie Waiting from, like, 15 years ago, a bunch of times. He— I just don't think—

JASPER: Okay.

ERIC: —there's anything going on behind the eyes.

JASPER: I think it's that or he unzips himself and he is actually a lizard person who is perfectly designed to make you buy things.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Like, he was created in a lab to make you want to buy things.

ERIC: He zips it off and—

JASPER: He is so marketable, it's ridiculous, like—

ERIC: He zips off his skinsuit and it's like the frozen head of Walt Disney on a robot body. [Jasper laughs] Yeah.

JASPER: And he— he's powered by Coca-Cola. You have to pour Coca-Cola, like, into him to keep him going.

ERIC: Yeah. The most American drink, yeah. Uh, the last thing I want to say is Real Salt Lake City. [Jasper laughs] All right. Let's keep moving.

JASPER: That would be ridiculous.

ERIC: That exists. That's real, Jasper.

JASPER: No, no, it's not.

ERIC: That's real. Do you remember when we—

JASPER: No, it's not.

ERIC: Remember when I— we talked about—

JASPER: Oh, shit. Yes!

ERIC: —Utah—

JASPER: I remember. Oh, I need to look this up.

ERIC: —Utah sports teams. It's— their MLS team is called Real Salt Lake. That's real.

JASPER: It is actually called Real Salt Lake.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: That is incredible. Wow. I don't think I processed that properly, and I should have done.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: And I'm sorry for not doing so. Wow.

ERIC: And listen, we also have— it's so funny. Yeah. Football teams— sorry, soccer teams are also— they're all the same. They're Inter, and Real, and FC. And then we have the New York Red Bulls, fully sponsored by Red Bull. That's just how we do it.

JASPER: Well, we've— there's two— there's two clubs in Europe that are quite big prestigious clubs.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: That's RB Leipzig and, uh, RB Salzburg.

ERIC: Yeah. Wouldn't you rather—

JASPER: Uh—

ERIC: —be the— the Swarm?

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: The Heat?

JASPER: Uh—

ERIC: The Colt? You don't want to be the Colts?

JASPER: Uh, no.

ERIC: That's fine.

JASPER: No, I can't be. Um, like, I'll be Arsenal, I would— I'd actually— I'd throw myself off of a bridge or something. That'd be horrendous. I don't want to do that.

ERIC: That's true.

JASPER: I don't want—

ERIC: I mean, shout-out to hockey be— which we're just a bunch of dudes hanging out. We have the Montr— we have the Toronto Maple Leafs, L-E-A-F-S, not leaves, leafs. And of course—

JASPER: That's wild, they spelt it leafs.

ERIC: And of course, the original— the— or one of the— or almost like— probably the first team— I know they were the— there was the original six, but I feel like these guys made it first. The Montreal Canadiens, the Canadiens.

JASPER: Oh, the Canadiens? Wild. That, like— I saw the spelling of that, and was like, "What? Have they misspelt?"

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: "What— what's going on? Like, that's not how you spelled Canadians. What?"

ERIC: Yeah. You can tell which ones are, like, new teams and which ones are the old teams. Jasper, which one do you think is new or old, the Montreal Canadiens or the Minnesota Wild? Which one do you think is a new team?

JASPER: Wild? The Minnesota Wild.

ERIC: The Minnesota Wild, yeah.

JASPER: Just— just again, singular, wild.

ERIC: I love the— that's my favorite.

JASPER: Like—

ERIC: I love singular team names. I think it's great. All right, Jasper. Let's quickly do some games that are giving us feelings, bruv.

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: Because we have a lot of really good questions about sports. Thank you to everybody who has been submitting over at—

JASPER: Yes, thank you.

ERIC: —gamesandfeelings.com/questions. Remember, you can submit questions all the time. We were asking for specific, uh, sports ones. We're gonna do some games that are giving us feelings really quickly. Jasper, it's June, which means that the dog days—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —of baseball are coming, but really, my favorite thing is coming, which is off-season basketball.

JASPER: Okay. Okay.

ERIC: You know, I love watching basketball. It's my favorite sport. I like the way they dribble up and down the court. The playoffs is when everyone turns it up. Like, it's been really wonderful seeing, uh, like players play to their highest ability, even though my beloved Boston Celtics got owned in the Eastern Conference Finals. Um, but big— big Nikola Jokic just making everybody look— look weird. He's just— he's 300 pounds. He's like a bear. He— he can pass like a point guard, and he's like— imagine, he's like a 300-pound Serbian man. It's wonderful. He's— he's delightful.

JASPER: Wow. That's just— that's fun, right?

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Like—

ERIC: Denver Nuggets, baby. Denver Nuggets.

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: Uh, oh, Denver Nuggets, also a great team name. But the thing is, is that the drama, Jasper, all of the drama—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —happens in the offseason.

JASPER: Yup. Okay.

ERIC: Because these guys are famous and they— they love beefing, and they have a phone, and they have nothing better to do. And I'm not just— I'm not just talking about, like, the young guys coming in, like, uh, the 22-year-olds or whatever. I mean, these—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —things keep happening like— like future superstar Zion Williamson, it just came out recently that, like, he got, like, a porn star pregnant, instead of his girlfriend. That was wild. All of the hype—

JASPER: You said “instead of” like it was an accident. Like—

ERIC: I— it sounded like it was an accident, the way that they're spinning it.

JASPER: [laughs] What?

ERIC: Um, the— and, of course, we're all incredibly excited for Victor Wembanyama to come in, who's like seven feet tall and also can play like a point guard, and he's French. So, like, no one really knows. Like, he's only— he's, like, not played in traditional American sports. He's just like, um, play, like, internationally and everyone's like, "Oh, my God. This guy is gonna take over the league." Um, but all of the drama— the drama starts— especially with LeBron James, who's just his own drama field inside of his own self. Immediately— Jasper—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —I gotta tell you this. Immediately—

JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ERIC: —after the Lakers lost to the Nuggets in the Western—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —Conference Finals, and, uh, the Nuggets are probably— they haven't won yet, but I'm assuming they're going to win the NBA—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —Championship. Immediately after, not so that the— maybe to take away from the fact that the Nuggets are celebrating. LeBron's like, "Yeah, I might retire. I don't know." And then he just left. So then everyone just kept talking about him instead of the fact that the Nuggets won the Western Conference Finals.

JASPER: Be that petty! Be that petty. I love it.

ERIC: He's also filming a documentary at the same time. I think— did— did you watch The Last Dance? Do you know about The Last Dance?

JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Dude, that was huge over here. Yeah.

ERIC: Okay. I just— I— it was huge everywhere, but— so the big—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: —documentary that came out in 2020 about, uh, Michael Jordan and the Bulls that won all of those, uh, NBA championships. I think it broke LeBron's brain, and now he's, like—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: —filming his own documentary. And he has been for the last two years. And, uh, so I figured that's really getting to him. Here's the thing, the drama just keeps happening. I'm so excited about all of it. This all comes— kind of comes back to 2018, which I think kicked off the drama, and then everyone is so messy in the NBA. During the NBA Finals in 2018, Jasper—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —the— it was revealed in a— an extensive report by theringer.com that team president Bryan Colangelo of the 76ers, the Philadelphia 76ers. Bryan Colangelo, again, as team president, he was, like, old white guy. He's not the general manager. He— he didn't, like, run the team, but he was, like, head of operations, you know? Like, very much—

JASPER: Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ERIC: —in the admin side. It was revealed—

JASPER: Uh-huh.

ERIC: —he had burner Twitter accounts, talking about how great he was, and how bad some— some of the mistakes happened.

JASPER: Noo!

ERIC: Yeah. Yeah, it was huge.

JASPER: That's incredible.

ERIC: And I think it's like— that was, like, the singularity event. Ever since then, or at least for as long as I can remember, the NBA has become like the most drama-filled league, especially over the offseason. And it's so funny how this—

JASPER: Mmmm.

ERIC: —overlaps with the NBA Finals, is like here in June, the NBA— because the majority of the playoffs of the NBA happened in May, and then a little bit spills over to June at the end. Um, and then— then everyone goes crazy.

JASPER: Yeah, yeah.

ERIC: So ever since then, I— um, offseason NBA, I love it. I love it.

JASPER: Offseason NBA, that's— uh, I— to be honest, that sounds like the kind of drama I can get behind, so I'm also gonna have to check this out.

ERIC: I'll keep— I'll keep—

JASPER: Um—

ERIC: —following up with you. I'll keep telling you the good stories.

JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Keep filling me in with stuff, because I think that's— uh, yeah, that sounds very fun. Um, I actually was gonna do something, uh, slightly different—

ERIC: Please.

JASPER: —but, uh, I— actually, I'm gonna now take the time to tell you about some drama that's been happening in the football world, which was some Game of Thrones level shit—

ERIC: Yes.

JASPER: —that happened. So, basically, um— and— and I think what happened is, it was a— a bit of a— a backfire, if you will, and so the feeling it's giving me is joy.

ERIC: Okay.

JASPER: Um, because what happened was going into the last game of the season, Bayern Munich were going for their 11th straight, uh, Bundesliga title, but, um—

ERIC: It— is Bundesliga— just to— to clarify for the people who are listening.

JASPER: It's the German league.

ERIC: And it's also very good.

JASPER: It's very, very good— yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'd say it's like—

ERIC: Like— like the Premiere League is, like, one— but there's still, like, the— I know the Italian League is pretty good, too.

JASPER: Yeah, I'd say the current kind of, like, ordering I would say is probably, like, uh, the English Premier League, then I would say the Italian League is— probably, this year has probably come—

ERIC: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

JASPER: —up because it's actually, like, super competitive right now and their teams are doing really well in the Champions League. Then I'd say it's the German League, uh, then probably— oh, I actually want to talk about— it'd be the Spanish league then, uh—

ERIC: Sure.

JASPER: —then it probably go, uh, down into the order that I just said, so Italian, German.

ERIC: But still really, that means it's good.

JASPER: But— like, yeah, it's still up there. It's still very much up there.

ERIC: Okay.

JASPER: But, anyway, it was gonna be super— it's— it's very exciting because Borussia Dortmund, who are like the only other kind of, like, super big team who has any chance of really winning the Bundesliga title, all they had to do on the last day was win their game, and they were going to be champions.

ERIC: Okay.

JASPER: Because, uh, Borussia Dortmund, for anyone who doesn't know, it is an incredibly well-run team who basically have a track record of, like, selling their best players for obscene profits.

ERIC: Oh my God.

JASPER: They've made, like, over a billion pounds worth of profit or something over the last, like, 10 years in selling players.

ERIC: We— okay. We haven't talked about this before. You can just—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —sell players in football.

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: That's crazy.

JASPER: Yeah, we don't draft— we don't mess around with this drafting nonsense. It's just like, "Hey, I have a contract with this player. You can buy that contract effectively and have him on your team if you give me, like, uh, £50 million or something."

ERIC: I mean, I think—

JASPER: So—

ERIC: —you have to do it because of the fact that you're crossing league lines so often, like—

JASPER: Oh, yeah. Constantly. Yeah.

ERIC: —going from the Spanish— like Italian League to Premier League, to MLS to— like, you can just go. I mean, you have to do it that way.

JASPER: Exactly. Yeah. Uh, unless someone's at the end of their contract, in which they can go for free. That's what happened with Messi going into Miami—

ERIC: Oh.

JASPER: —uh, because there was probably no amount of money that PSG would have accepted for Lionel Messi, but he just ran his contract down and didn't sign with anyone.

ERIC: Got it.

JASPER: So, uh, Dortmund, uh, this, like, really amazing team who kind of getting, like, a crop of good players and they played together for a couple years, and they all get picked apart, which is what's gonna happen this summer. And they got themselves all the way to the final day. And now, I think that Bayern who are this, like, mega super club in the German League, they win it every single year. No one else comes close. Sometimes someone else wins one of the cups, but generally Bayern always win. Like I said, this would be their 11th straight win.

ERIC: Mm-hmm.

JASPER: Anyway, skip forward, but Dortmund shoot themselves in the foot by playing terribly in the first half. They lose the game two-one, Bayern get a late— like a last minute penalty to, uh, win their game. They become champions of the Bundesliga. And 10 minutes after the final whistle is blown, it is revealed there has been a boardroom coup, and the two highest-ranking people at Bayern Munich have been sacked and were banned from being at the stadium to celebrate with the players. It's like, what? Like it was— it was, like, just the juiciest, craziest Game of Thrones shit ever. Now, I genuinely believe they set it up to do this because they—

ERIC: Oh, sure.

JASPER: —thought they were cooked. Mainz— uh, B— Dortmund were playing Mainz, and Mainz have been terrible. They've lost their last four games in a row. There's no universe in which Bayern thought that Dortmund were going to lose their game. They thought, "Okay. We're gonna— not gonna win this— this Bundesliga title, so we're gonna have this whole story break five minutes or whatever after the final whistle." And then they won it. And whilst their players are on the pitch, showering each other with beer, it turns out that there is a literal boardroom coup happening. It was incredible. Absolutely incredible. One of the—

ERIC: Oh my God.

JASPER: Uh, Oliver Kahn, who's this incredibly, uh, famous German footballer, uh, retired, who was the executive— chief executive who was one of the people who got fired, starts tweeting a tirade of like, "They won't let me in. They won't let me celebrate." It was just like, "Whoa! What the fuck is going on? This is crazy!" Like, this is absolutely crazy. Uh, so just all the drama over in Germany, it made me instantly happy again after being so sad that Dortmund had lost.

ERIC: Mm-hmm.

JASPER: Uh, immediately, I was like, "Well, this serves you right. This serves you right, Bayern Munich. You stole your own thunder."

ERIC: That's so funny.

JASPER: Only Bayern Munich could steal their own thunder. It was incredible.

ERIC: You know, this is also— I— I think there is a question about this, so I want to hold this a little bit. But, like, the bus—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: There's something about the business stuff that happens in sports that activates—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —the same like— I think the same ‘true crime’ part of other people's brains.

JASPER: Sure.

ERIC: Just like the drama— real drama happening to real people that— it's not metaphorical. Like sports is it's— it's like—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —actual, it's literal, and—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —literal drama. And I— God, I love— I love this shit.

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: It's— it's humans. I— I— corporations and business are just humans bumping up into each other in the most kind of, like, straightforward way— thing that humans do, and I love it, too. I love this so much.

JASPER: And I think there's something about like the pressure cooker of sports—

ERIC: Yup.

JASPER: —as well. Like, the fact that it's such like this impassioned— it's like all the things that you shouldn't have in your like, you know, multibillion-dollar business, you shouldn't have a bunch of emotional dudes making decisions—

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: —because they're sad about something. Like, that should not be— how it works, but that's exactly how this is run. Like— it's a lot of people just like who just lost and go, "Well, fuck! You're fired and you're fired and, like, I'm gonna buy Lionel Messi!"

You know what I mean?

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: It's just like, "Whoa, what are you doing?" This makes no sense.

ERIC: Yeah. I mean, I think it's the thing that made everyone love Succession so much. Is—

JASPER: Hmmmm.

ERIC: —like, "Oh, no, this is"— it's a— business is not cold and calculated. It's all about feelings.

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: And we love watching that.

JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I guess what it is with sports is that we get to see that played out in public, whereas like, we don't get to see these— these meltdowns—

ERIC: No.

JASPER: —at the top of Disney. We know they happen.

ERIC: Right.

JASPER: But, like, we don't get to see them. Whereas with sports, we literally get to watch them, like, on the touchline. You know what I mean? You'll see someone just losing their mind and you'll be like, "Oh, he's getting himself fired."

ERIC: Right.

JASPER: If you ever— this is a big recommendation. If you ever want to see just one of the most incredible interviews I've ever seen in my life, watch Antonio Conte, uh, talk about Tottenham Hotspur. It's just a couple of weeks ago. It was just— he was basically had been trying to get himself fired from this job for a couple of weeks, because he— he has a bit of a track record of, like— he gets so far with the team, and basically, he'll start to let the— you know, results will start to go badly and there'll be all these reports coming out about how he's not getting along with the board. And then he gets fired, and he gets a huge payout. So, obviously, he didn't want to leave, because he wouldn't get his money. He wouldn't get, like, his, like, severance package or whatever. So, he was trying to get himself fired, and he does this incredible rant. And he go— he's, like, basically talking about how, like, Tottenham never win anything. The reason they never win anything is— but— it's like, "Oh, well, this board, they've been in charge, and they've never won any— since they've been in charge, they haven’t won anything." And these players, the players are always the same, but he's losing his mind in this, like, high-pitched Italian accent where he's like, [in a high-pitched Italian accent] "The players, the players, why is nobody blaming the players?" And it's just incredible to watch this man lose his mind live on TV and just feel the whole world being like— the whole world just all— the whole football world just pulled up a seat really quietly, and just handed popcorn to each other. And just like— it was just like "What the fuck is happening? This is amazing. He's losing his mind."

ERIC: I love that. I— I'm gonna— I found an article from ESPN describing the whole thing for Americans, so I will— I will—

JASPER: Yeah. Perfect.

ERIC: —include that link in the episode description.

JASPER: Please do. It's a great watch.

ERIC: Oh, there's— man, I feel like we could make the whole episode about this. I'm gonna say this so quickly before we end up going into the questions.

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: There's something—

JASPER: Yup.

ERIC: —about football— soccer that—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —is tied to— because, you know, Americans love thinking that they have, like, city identity and the teams are tied to that, but it is kind of funny that, like, there are some cities that have, like, three sport— pro sports teams, and they're like a football town, or a baseball town, or a hockey town.

JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure.

ERIC: But, like, in European countries and in city— cities— small cities, towns, honestly, they have their—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —own soccer club and—

JASPER: Yup.

ERIC: —that's all they have. So, it's so—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —tied to your hometown identity. On top of that—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —we have the World Cup, which is literally tied to how you—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —feel about yourself as a countryman. So, I—

JASPER: Yup.

ERIC: —think that that's— and that makes everything extra funny, especially when we talk—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —about business stuff, because it's one thing when like— I don't know. In the NBA or the NFL where it is— like athletes are themselves. They're, like, a per— they're like—

JASPER: Mmmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

ERIC: You know, LeBron, he can say that he went to Cleveland because he's from there and he wanted to bring them a title, but, like, he also went—

JASPER: Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ERIC: —to Miami. He's in the— with— in, uh, in Los Angeles, blah— blah, blah, blah. But it's like—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —it's really funny that a guy comes in— an Italian man comes in and yells about Tot— yells about Tottenham and it's like—

JASPER: Yup.

ERIC: And then everyone in that city is like, "Fuck you! Fuck you!"

JASPER: Yeah!

ERIC: "That's my house!"

JASPER: And every— every single person like— it's amazing. Uh, go and watch the— the Napoli celebration. They won their first title in, like, 30 or something years. Uh, Napoli exploded. Uh— uh, like there was reports of, like, people not showing up for work for, like, a week— two weeks, like, after they won. Like, it was— it— like it's—

ERIC: The first thing I Googled— I Googled Napoli celebration and the first thing was fireworks. [laughs]

JASPER: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's like— it was honestly— like Napoli just went wild, because their whole— the— so much of their identity is tied up within their sports team, and they just won the Italian, uh, League for the first time in a while, so good example.

ERIC: Incredible. And then imagine we just had, like, a two-hour conversation with multiple PhDs and doctorates about why everyone is black on the nat— on the French national team.

JASPER: Oh! That— yeah, that— that's a full conversation that I— I don't think I have the wherewithal to have right now.

ERIC: We got— we had professors come in. We had doctorate—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —candidates come in. We had that conversation. It was great.

JASPER: Okay, sorry. I'm gonna stop throwing out things for people to watch but, like, this is the last one, I promise.

ERIC: Please.

JASPER: Find the video of the French national team parading the World Cup around the Olympic Stadium in Paris. It is the hypest shit you will ever watch—

ERIC: Oh my God. Yeah.

JASPER: —in your life. Basically, this French rapper, uh, made a song about, like, the first team players of the French national team, and they all sing it as they're going round the stadium, and the whole stadium is singing along. And it's just like— uh, like, it's mind-blowingly hype.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Like you’re sat there just like, "Ha!" Like doing kind of stank face the whole time, just like, "Oh my God. This is so good. Oh!" It's just— it's amazing. Like, please watch it. It's so— I will just occasionally watch it from time to time and be like, "This is awesome."

ERIC: That's sick. That's absolutely sick. Okay.

JASPER: Uh, also, then laughing about the fact that— imagine if we tried to do that in England, like Stormzy doing a rap whilst like the— like, we would get lampooned. We would lampoon our own players. We'd be like, "What are you doing?"

ERIC: It would be funny, I know.

JASPER: Like, "Who do you think you are?" But it's only because the entire French national team is black that they got away with it.

ERIC: Yeah, totally. And I'm—

JASPER: Because, literally, they all are.

ERIC: —I'm— I'm sure France, uh, did that. You know, it was homegrown and it has nothing to do with their colonial history. I— everything’s fine.

JASPER: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. They just welcomed a lot of people from Africa. That's all it is. That's all it is.

ERIC: Yeah. No, they were just like, "Come on in. It's fine." For no reason— for no reason.

JASPER: Famously— famously, uh, every country just goes "Uh, come on in. It's fine."

ERIC: “Come— come on in. The nationalism is fine, It's warm. Come on in."

JASPER: “It's— [laughs] it's warm. Here, have a— have some jam on bread.”

ERIC: “No, we have baguettes here. How do you make bread? Stupid.”

JASPER: Yeah. Yeah, “Don't want it.”

ERIC: “Uh, I don't— Injera? I don't even know what that is. It's a baguette. It's right here.”

[theme song plays]

ERIC: Hey, it's Eric, and I got you SunnyD. There's the standard in the big orange bottles and I also got some hard SunnyD in cans. 2023 is wild. Everything is a hard seltzer. This podcast is even a hard seltzer. Please support this wonderful independent content and the other wonderful things that we make here at Games and Feelings and join the Patreon, patreon.com/gamesandfeelings. I hope you're liking the ad-free episodes. And if you're like, "What, ad-free episodes?" Go check it out, patreon.com/gamesandfeelings. Also, shout-out to producer-level patrons, Polly Burrage, Kelsey Duffy, and Peyton who send you fun TikToks made by employees at game stores. There's a lot of them. They're fun. patreon.com/gamesandfeelings. It is a beautiful, wonderful day to try another show from the Multitude Podcast collective. You're probably gonna like Join the Party, an actual play podcast with tangible worlds, genre-pushing storytelling, and collaborators who make each other laugh every week. Me, GM Eric, and the emphatic players, Amanda, Brandon, and Julia, bring everyone into the table from longtime tabletop RPG players to folks who've never touched a role-playing game before. Hop into our current campaign, a pirate story set in a world of plant and bug people, or marathon our completed stories with The Camp-paign, a Monster of the Week game set in a weird and wild summer camp; Campaign Two for a modern superhero game; and Campaign One for a high fantasy story. I know I talk about it a lot, but I, uh, I really feel like I'm GM'ing at the top of my game right now. It's a lot of fun. Join the Party is really, really great. So pull up a chair and Join the Party - get it? Search for Join the Party in your podcast app or go to jointhepartypod.com. We are sponsored this week by the Valari Gaming Pillow. That's right, gamers. This is a pillow designed to support your hands, forearms, and elbows, thus reducing the strain from your shoulders and neck while you play and you do the gamer hunch. It promotes better posture, prevents the discomfort commonly associated with extended gaming sessions like sore neck, shoulders, and back pain. And truly, as someone 32, I can tell you, I a hundred percent get back pain from playing games too long. This is honestly a wonderful solution. While perfect for gaming, the Valari Gaming Pillow can be used for various activities, working from home, working on a laptop, working on the tablet, reading, watching movies, or just relaxing and maxing real cool. It's handcrafted with high-quality materials, premium suede-like covers and carefully selected filling. The Valari Pillow is a plush and durable surface that enhances your gaming comfort. Honestly, I have one, it's really great. And it seems really, really big, but then you can twist it together and clip it down, so you can make it kind of small. And it looks really, really cute on your couch. If this sounds interesting to you, if you think this is going to solve your older gamer worries, then I have the discount for you. Use code GF10 at checkout for 10% off your order at valari.gg. That's V-A-L-A-R-I dot G-G, like “good game,” and use code GF10 for 10% off your order. And now back to the show.

[theme plays]

ERIC: All right, Jasper. We have some questions here all about sports.

JASPER: Yes!

ERIC: Um, I think that we can— we're gonna hop into these questions. The first one is kind of about an athletic hobby, and then we'll kind of get into—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: —the stuff that we touched on in the beginning of the episode, and some more specific pro sports questions. This one is from—

JASPER: Okay.

ERIC: —Ice Climber.

JASPER: Ice Climber.

ERIC: Pronouns, she, her. “My husband and I have gotten really into bouldering over the last six months.” For those of you who don't know, bouldering is like rock climbing, but it's really short, and so you don't need, like, an apparatus.

JASPER: Yeah, you just got, like, a mat below you and— yeah.

ERIC: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. “We're trying to get our friends on board with the hobby, but we found that even if they buy the shoes and come semi-regularly to the gym, they aren't as intoxicated by the sport as we are. This results in minimal progress for them, and eventually, they quit. I feel like our friends are becoming discouraged because they're climbing at a lower level than my husband and I. We aren't mean to them about it, because games are supposed to be fun.” Good job. Um, “and we try to be encouraging and give advice, and try to share stories about how we felt when we first started. However, I know that sometimes you feel discouraged when you see more advanced climbers, and I sometimes get upset when I get unsolicited advice. So I imagine our friends kind of feel the same way. My question is, how do you help friends who are interested in your skill-based hobby catch up to your level without being annoying or giving too much advice?”

JASPER: Ooh, interesting. My instinct is telling me, like, you need to find a way to have them discover the hobby on their own.

ERIC: Mm-hmm.

JASPER: Because that's how you discovered it, right? Like, the chances are that, like, you discovered it, because it's, like— like maybe a friend took you along once and then, you're like, "Oh, I'm gonna go back." Because I feel like you have to kind of do it of your own volition. If you're always the one bugging them about going—

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Like, I feel like that would just— it just probably— they'd be like, "Nah, this is kind of just— a bit of a drag and I don't really enjoy it as much and"— do you know what I mean? But it is tricky. It is tricky.

ERIC: I— I didn't know you have to buy shoes. I guess that makes sense to me, but, like—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: —because you— I— that's— that's such a bummer. And I bet they're like $70.

JASPER: Yeah, you need special shoes.

ERIC: You know?

JASPER: Yeah, they're— they're definitely way too expensive for shoes that you're only going to wear during this very specific task.

ERIC: Yeah. Bouldering is also very fun. I think it's cool. Every—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: A lot of people like climbing up stuff without any apparatus attached to them, but it's like, you got to go to a climbing gym. And, again, I live in not a car city, so it's like I gotta walk to that and it's, like, 30 minutes away, and in a weird spot. So I guess if I drove there, maybe it'll be different. But, like, you got to go to a very specific place to do this specific thing. The thing I— uh, which I— I think is interesting about this question is that this is a sport or athletic activity that's not a team sport. It's a lot of people—

JASPER: Yes.

ERIC: —doing individual stuff side by side, which I think makes it a little more frustrating, and, like, I appreciate that you identified that you're being annoying, because I think you might be putting it on a little too thick.

JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was my— that was what I was thinking and I was like— maybe come— it's coming across a little bit like, “Hey, friends, come do this thing with me, come do this with me.'" Like—

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: And I'm like, "Okay. That's completely— yes, of course, you know. I want to do stuff with you and"— you know, I'm generally like, "Oh, I'll do anything like once or twice."

ERIC: Right. I agree.

JASPER: But, like, I actually had a very similar experience where I tried bouldering, some friends took me. I cut my hands a bunch and was just like—

ERIC: Mmmm.

JASPER: —I did not enjoy this. Like, it was— I can see the appeal. I can see why people would enjoy this, but this is not for me. Um, and very much got like a, "What, you don't like that?"

ERIC: Right.

JASPER: Like, "What?" And, like, I feel like I have to be very conscious of this when I talk about D&D or whatever. And I'm like— you know, I'm like, "Oh, D&D is, like, the best, right? You play it once and now you're hooked." And they're like, "Nah." And I'm like, "But that's not possible." You know what I mean? So like you do have to catch yourself. You know what I mean? When you're talking about these things, because, obviously, you're incredibly passionate. You want other people to feel the same way that you do, which is a very, like, earnest thing to want, but it's just not always going to happen. Like, sometimes people are gonna be like, "Nah, I'm good. Like, it's just not my jam." And that's also— that's totally fine.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Um—

ERIC: With a— with a thing like an athletic activity, it's hard to be like— yeah, there's a line to how encouraging you can be, because, eventually, they need to pick up—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: —the— the baton. There's nothing wrong, also, with you being the bouldering person.

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: Also, because it's an athletic activity, you know, this is your way of moving your body. You don't necessarily need friends to get into it, too. I think that, like—

JASPER: Yeah. No.

ERIC: —maybe if you want your friends to do something with you, think about something that's a little bit more inclusive, like watching sports together, or playing—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —a team game—

JASPER: A team game, yeah.

ERIC: —of some sort, because—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —it's just easier to get people on board who is a beginner. And I think that, like, these—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —doing stuff next to each other things at different levels is—

JASPER: For sure.

ERIC: —it just might not be the thing that you can do.

JASPER: Yeah. Yeah.

ERIC: I can say— I— I just want to say bouldering is cool and I can see why you want people to be into it. It seems like a thing. If you— if you connect to it, it's like there's a place where you can climb and you feel so strong, and you feel like you're in the air, and your legs are dangling, and I've never felt more like a powerful person, like a human—

JASPER: Uh-huh.

ERIC: —using all of my muscles. I get it. I get it.

JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get it.

ERIC: It's like I'm with you.

JASPER: For sure, for sure.

ERIC: I hear why you want to bring your friend on. However—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —this might not be—

JASPER: However.

ERIC: —the most accessible thing.

JASPER: Yup. I agree. I think it's—

ERIC: Was that stern but fair, Jasper? Was that tough but fair?

JASPER: I think that's— I think that's— no, I think that's good. I think that's correct. I think that's the right tone to take with this. I think it's okay if your friends don't get into it. It's definitely okay if your friends aren't having as much fun as you are, because, like, it's unlikely that they're gonna. You know what I mean?

ERIC: Mm-hmm.

JASPER: Like, it's just unlikely that your friends are gonna suddenly be like, "I am so all the way in, just as much as you are. Let's do this twice a week." You know what I mean? Like, this probably is not gonna happen and that's okay.

ERIC: Mm-hmm. I respect that.

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: Okay.

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: Ice Climber, you got it. At least you have your husband to do it with you, honestly. I think that's—

JASPER: Yeah, yeah. You got your husband. Just make it a couples thing.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: You know what I mean? It's good.

ERIC: I—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: Like, I totally see what you're getting for— with, that, like, you want to include your friends in a thing. I don't think this thing is the thing.

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: The thing you asked a question about, skill-based hobbies, where it's individualized, that's tough. It's tough.

JASPER: Yeah. Yeah.

ERIC: You know?

JASPER: Or start one together where you're all the same level.

ERIC: Yes, exactly.

JASPER: Like— you know what I mean? Like— so you're all the same level, you get to figure it out all at the same time and, you know, you might progress faster, because it sounds like, you know, you're probably— you and your husband are pretty athletic people. So, like, you might well pick it up faster, but I feel like you'd be starting at the same place, which might lead to less of that like, "Oh, I feel like we're kind of better than them or I can— I feel like they're getting frustrated about their lack of progress, et cetera." Because it's like, at least we started from the same place and, you know, they— their level of buy-in will be there from the beginning rather than you sort of trying to force that level of buy-in.

ERIC: I agree, I agree. Go— go try, like, Skee-Ball leagues or— or bowling where at least— at least— it's— there is ostensibly a team act— a team grouping, you know?

JASPER: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Five-a-side soccer.

ERIC: Uh, all right, Jasper. I'm gonna hit you with a question that is very close, near and dear to your heart. And I think that this is something that Americans feel about your favorite sport of futbol, of— of F—

JASPER: Ooh.

ERIC: Of Real Salt Lake.

JASPER: FC. In— Inter FC, yeah. Okay.

ERIC: Inter— Inter Miami, Internazionale Miami.

JASPER: Internazionale Miami.

ERIC: Yeah. This is from Brian from Queens. I don't want to change the name, because I think it's really important to the question. Uh, “within the last few years, I’ve really gotten into futbol, uh, and it's giving me feelings—”

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: “—like no other sport. First of all, I love I can watch a Premier League from start to finish. It takes like two hours and sometimes it's only 9:30 in the morning. Since I'm American, I don't have any allegiance to a Premier League team, and I spent some time trying to figure it out. I did not want to back perennial winners and look like a front-runner, nor did I want the fear of relegation. Uh, especially as a lifelong New— New York Mets fan, I thrive in the depths of utter and complete failure with a glimmer of hope just out of reach. I wanted a team that could be good, but also blow it in the worst way possible. Maybe I wanted a team with an interesting name, a weird logo? So I went with Tottenham Hotspur.”

JASPER: Ugggghhh.

ERIC: “Despite only caring about—”

JASPER: So disappointing.

ERIC: “—football for two years, I was dismayed to hear Jasper supported Arsenal. So my question is, can Jasper explain his love for Arsenal and convince me that I shouldn't hold that against him? Also, American soccer needs a relegation system, it makes everything so much better and so much worse.” Uh, I would like to—

JASPER: Okay. Huge, huge agree with the p—

ERIC: —before we get into this person’s question—

JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

ERIC: —how do you feel about Americans randomly adopting soccer teams?

JASPER: I think it is, uh, it is fine. The only thing that I wish that Americans would do is realize that, like, a lot of these clubs are steeped in—

ERIC: Right.

JASPER: —kind of very like— like a lot of tradition and, like, history. And so, like, there are certain clubs which might align with you more than you would think. As in— I feel like— and this is not like a dig, like— because there's not this, like, swapping of players like with the draft. Like, the draft system, I feel like sets up a very different precedent.

ERIC: Mm-hmm.

JASPER: Whereby, like, players are kind of more iconic to clubs, and there's more of a— kind of symbiotic relationship there. And I think that, yeah, certain clubs will have certain, like, history traditions and things like that. And so, yeah, the— you might find a club that really fits you.

ERIC: Right.

JASPER: Uh, so I would say just do a little bit of light research, uh, of, like— you know, just go on the Wikis and just see when they were established, and see why they were established, and who they were established, and what kind of things they've, you know, uh, like, done or whatever. Like, they— they can feel very different and unique. And so, I don't necessarily mind people just adopting one, uh, because I'm aware that like— look, you don't live here, so it'd be weird for you to pick one based on where you live, because that's not possible.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Like, you know, you don't live near— otherwise, everyone, I guess, would pick like, I don't know, Liverpool, because it's maybe technically the closest on that side or some southern team near Dorset?

ERIC: And in reverse, I'd like to say that somehow you are a New Jersey Devils fan.

JASPER: Exactly. Uh, I picked the closest team to me, which is why I picked the New Jersey Devils. Um—

ERIC: No, but, like, most people, you went over to a dude's house and you adopted—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —the team that he likes, yeah.

JASPER: Yeah, exactly. That's also perfectly valid. Scrap research. If you know someone who's also into that team, I will not hold it against you to, like, bunking with them, because I'm like— look, getting into a sport is kind of not much fun if you do it on your own.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Like, you want to get into a sport with someone so that you can share those moments, like that's the joy of it, right? You can commiserate together, you can laugh together, you can celebrate together, et cetera. So, yeah, that is also fine. So, yeah, speaking of, uh, so part of the reason why, uh, I support Arsenal, my, uh, granddad was an Arsenal fan and kind of brought me up talking, uh, a lot about Arsenal. One of the reasons why I am very passionate is that Arsenal is, uh, a very— and has always been a very kind of, like, accepting multicultural club. Uh, it's always done a lot for— I'm pretty sure it was the first club to field an all-black team, and it has a lot of, like, black legends that are in— like throughout the history.

ERIC: Oh, I didn't know that. That's tight.

JASPER: Um, players like Rocky— like Rocky Rocastle who did, like, a lot for advancing not just players and footballers, but, like, black people and the perception of black people in England. Uh, Ian Wright, who's, again, very much the same, has done a lot of work. He now does a lot of work with the women's team.

ERIC: Mmm.

JASPER: Arsenal also famously invested the most out of any Premier League club in the women's team.

ERIC: Oh, I didn't know that.

JASPER: And had— and had a very dominant women's team for a very, very long time. Still— they're still very, very good. And sort of puts a lot of money into that, and they're now doing a lot where they're, like, having the— the women's team play in, like, the main stadium. Uh, so I think the women's team I would guess plays more games in our home stadium than any other team. And so, there's always been a bit of this kind of like— you know, we've always kind of considered— Arsenal has always considered itself to be, like, a very classy club that tries to do things, like, the "right way" in quotation marks. And usually, that's like a lot of community outreach. That's a lot of including the local areas, a lot of improving the local area. They did this really amazing string of adverts, which they actually got a— well, a guy who has a podcast, an Arsenal podcast, to do all the voiceovers for—

ERIC: Ooh.

JASPER: —uh, called Clive. He's a bit— he's a bit, like, kind of famous in the community. And they basically had players going into local businesses around the stadium and, like, doing a little advert for the— like this— you know, sort of like a fish and chip shop just outside the stadium. They did, like, a full glossy advert with, like, two of the players, like, walking in and doing this really funny kind of, like, to and fro with the owner and all this kind of stuff. And it was just really, really cool and, like, it felt amazing to see, you know, the club go out and do that. They always support— you know, they have a— they give a lot of money to, uh, Gay Gooners, which is like a charitable foundation, which is all about, uh, gay Arsenal fans who kind of found a community. And a lot of stuff like that. And so, I got into it mostly because of my granddad, but those— I genuinely feel a huge amount of pride supporting Arsenal, because I think they do a lot of stuff - as do so many clubs. I'm not saying this is, like, an exclusively an Arsenal thing. But these are just the things that I know about and I really, you know, enjoy. And as a person of color myself, like I grew up— my first black role models were all Arsenal players. Uh, you know, Patrick Vieira and Thierry Henry, you know, all these players— uh, you know, Kolo Toure, Sol Campbell. Like, there was so many of them in the team when I was growing up and, like, seeing a black player at the absolute pinnacle, getting paid, you know, being this star and being— you know, whatever, it was really impactful for me, and so that made a big, big, big difference as to, like, keeping my allegiance, because I remember I went to school, like a lot of my friends supported like Chelsea or Man United, because— Man United fans are like rats, you’re never more than three meters away from one of them. They're everywhere.

ERIC: True.

JASPER: Um—

ERIC: I— I was vaguely a Manchester United fan because a guy I knew from, like, elementary school and middle school moved from the UK to where I grew up, and he was like, "I like this" and I'm like, "Great. Okay, I guess I do, too."

JASPER: Eric, I— we can’t be friends anymore if you’re a Man U fan.

ERIC: No, I don't— I don't.

JASPER: I don't—

ERIC: When I was like 10.

JASPER: I know, I just want— I just want to clarify. I just want to clarify. I don't like Spurs. Spurs, though, are, like, an annoying little brother. They're not— I don't— we don't really take them seriously. Man United is the worst.

ERIC: No, I— I know, because—

JASPER: Man United— like I want nothing but ill.

ERIC: Their ownership group is in other sports. I know, they're not good. They're— they're bad. They're bad dudes.

JASPER: They're bad. They're bad people.

ERIC: No.

JASPER: They're bad. They even look— have you seen Glazer— like Joel Glazer. I've never seen a more villainous-looking dude in my life. Like, he is terrifying.

ERIC: I think I went to camp with one of his nephews or something.

JASPER: Wild.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Wild.

ERIC: So it's like they're everywhere. They're not good people, no.

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: They're not.

JASPER: Yeah, yeah.

ERIC: No.

JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but, yeah, so I love Arsenal. It has a long storied history. Uh, it's never been relegated from the Premier League. Uh, we've always been up there doing it. We're the only team to have ever gone invincible, which is a whole season completely unbeaten. Yeah, just— it's just a great club. And, look, listen, listen, Brian from Queens, it's not too late. We will accept you into our breasts, our bosom with warmth. And I will, uh, I will send you a full PDF of pros and cons to why you should support Arsenal and you shouldn't support Spurs. I'm ready to do that. Just tell me— like at me on Twitter and I will do this for you. I will deliver you. I'm working on Jake Hurwitz. I still— it pains me to this day that Jake supports the toilet bowl of a club, but, you know, this— this is just the situation that we're in and, uh, you know, I'm working on it. I'm working on it. I do think— I — he— he doesn't actually harbor any hatred for Arsenal and that is also a slight problem. Like, he needs to pick a lane.

ERIC: Right.

JASPER: And so this is what the other thing I will say, Brian from Queens, is like you need to pick a lane. If you're gonna support Tottenham, you have to— you have to hate Arsenal.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: If you don't, that's a problem, but you have to hate us. And remember all those things I just told you about black players supporting the community, you— [Eric laughs] you have to hate that, okay?

ERIC: If you like the Spurs—

JASPER: So I'm just— I'm just saying.

ERIC: —you also don't like that the women get to play in the same stadium.

JASPER: They hate it! They hate it. And I will just say this, if you look at an aerial view of the Tottenham Hotspur stadium, it does look like a toilet seat and their logo is a chicken standing on a volleyball. That's all I'm gonna say. That's all I'm gonna say. Okay? That's— that's it. I'm done. I'm out.

ERIC: No, it's beautiful. That's what I was hoping for. That's good. All right, Jasper. Let's do some quick ones, yeah?

JASPER: All right. Yeah. Okay.

ERIC: All right. This one's from— this one is from Soup Dumpling. Uh, Soup Dumpling is also listening to Join the Party. So Soup Dumpling— this is ‘The Soup Dumplings—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —You Can Now Get at the Stadium Because There's Much Better Food in the Stadium Now.’ Uh—

JASPER: Nice.

ERIC: “What's the best sport to watch live? I tried to plan some outings with my friends, but I just want my opinion. I love almost all sports, but they're unsure about combat juggling.” That shit’s cool. You should watch that. That shit’s wild.

JASPER: Combat juggling?

ERIC: “But my—”

JASPER: Okay.

ERIC: “But my friends will mostly go for the in-person experience.” Jasper, what's your favorite sport to watch live?

JASPER: Okay. I'm gonna say it depends on what kind of experience you're after. I hate cricket, but it's fantastic to watch live because it's effectively—

ERIC: Right. But that's just— like that's similar to baseball in the summer.

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: It's just vibes.

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: It's just vibes.

JASPER: It's just vibes.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: It's just vibes. So if you want vibes, go watch cricket or something. It's great—

ERIC: Same with baseball. I will say baseball when it's warm, just go for the vibes.

JASPER: And then when everyone starts cheering, you look and something cool is probably happening, but other— like the 95% of the rest of the time, it's boring. Just carry on talking to your friends and drinking. It's awesome. Um, I— like I said, the atmosphere of a football game, especially over in Europe, like—

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: —is just unparalleled. Like, get yourself to, like, the Nou Camp or, like, the Bernabeu or, uh, somewhere like that. Uh, or the— like the Allianz Arena where Bayern play. I mean, wow, the noise and everything is just absolutely incredible. Otherwise—

ERIC: Did you see hockey in person?

JASPER: No, I didn't see—

ERIC: Oh, okay.

JASPER: —ice hockey in person. No, no, no. Unfortunately, the Knights got knocked out the week before I got to LA.

ERIC: That's right. That's right. Yeah.

JASPER: So there was no available— it was— yeah, they're the Knights. Yeah. Um—

ERIC: In-person, I would say baseball for the vibes and then, like, one step below, go in person to hockey and to basketball games, but they're certainly not as fun. Like, hockey is really well laid out, but it's weird. You're in a cold stadium.

JASPER: Mmmm.

ERIC: I like the cold and I love popping on a sweatshirt, but it is really odd going into a place and like, "Oh, I'm inside and it's, like, 50 degrees."

JASPER: It's— it's cold.

ERIC: Yeah. And— and basketball is a little, like, claustrophobic sometimes, because you gotta, like, sit in your seat and then leave your seat.

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: But you could also go see the WNBA. Uh, there are tons of tickets available.

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: Uh, the play is really, really good, yeah, because of sexism, that's why, uh, it's not as popular. So if you have a WNBA—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —team, uh, near you, go do that. But a lot of places have Minor League Baseball games. Uh, no matter where you live in the America— in the Americas, so go check that out.

JASPER: I'll definitely shout-out at the WSL as well, the Women's, uh, Super League because it's absolutely amazing, um, brilliant atmosphere and the standard is just— again, unbelievable. And they play a very different game. They absolutely kick the shit out of each other. It's absolutely fantastic.

ERIC: They really do. They really do.

JASPER: Like, in— in the men's game, they'll, like, roll around the floor, clutching their knees. In the women's game, they'll, like, take each other’s jaws off, it's just like “Jesus!”

ERIC: That's really— that's true in like a lot of like— I think what people associate with like women's college sports, like, um—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: —field hockey and lacrosse, women— the women's are way more intense than the men's.

JASPER: Brutal.

ERIC: I mean, men don't play—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: —field hockey, but definitely in— in the different types of lacrosse. Uh, here's another quick one. This is for— from Go for the Gold.

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: “How do I, as a 26-year-old person, play social sports without getting too competitive? Especially sports that I played competitively as a child, a teenager. Social sports seems like a good way to make friends, but no one wants to be friends with the person who takes it way too seriously or gets aggressive.”

JASPER: Funny. That's a really good one, because that is super true. I think you gotta keep the rules as loose as possible.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Because if you start having any kind of like— if— if— like if you're playing American football, you have a football, you have a touchdown zone. That's it.

ERIC: Right.

JASPER: Don't do anything else. If you’re playing soccer, have some jumpers on the ground, and kick a ball in between them. That's it. Nothing else. As soon as you add any other layer of complexity, whether it be, you know, yellow cards or a referee—

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: —or first downs or any— anything like that, you're immediately gonna get into— that's where I think the— the— like, "Wait— wait— wait, what do you mean that's a yellow or what is it” like—

ERIC: Mm-hmm.

JASPER: Like, that's where I feel like you're gonna get into the— the super competitive nature of you is gonna come out and be like— whereas if it's super loose, you just have to treat it like that. It's just super loose. Like, I don't have to worry about the rules. The rules are all a little janky. It's fine.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: You know what I mean?

ERIC: Yeah. The weird thing is like the— I— in America, the most competitive social sport— or not competitive. I think the most pervasive one is, like, always baseball, and that makes absolutely no sense for con— considering how many—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —like how much equipment you need and how, like, every—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —game, there's no way to have a loose baseball game. It's all kind of—

JASPER: Right.

ERIC: —like, regimented, because it has so many rules. So it's just odd.

JASPER: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

ERIC: I get it. The thing— yeah, I agree with Jasper. It needs to be casual, and there's usually, like—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: If there's leagues that are put together but, like, “adultleagues.com,” they try to make it more official, but don't, just— just don't. I think you just need to take the temperature and if you know it's not—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —competitive, you can't turn on the jets, unless you want to style on someone and make everyone think you're cool.

JASPER: The only other option here is look around, who is the most competitive person there? Dial it in just under them.

ERIC: Mm-hmm.

JASPER: If you dial it in just under them, no one will take— uh, we only ever have the capacity to focus on one guy who's being a douche and taking it way too seriously. So, just find the one guy that's like— find Eric who's just wait— who's just going a little too hot and then dial it in right underneath him. You know what I mean?

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Like, shout just a little bit quieter than he does. So you get to vent it out a little bit, but you don't— just never go over that guy. If you— if that guy kind of, like, comes up to you like, "What do you mean?" Like, you get to look like the big man - just back down, let that guy have it, knowing that he's also taken all the heat off of you when you punch the ground out of frustration.

ERIC: Yeah. I also want to say that Go for the Gold’s pronouns are she/they, which is only to say that you, uh, have a lot more ro— the— there will be a man in your co-ed league who is too intense.

JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ERIC: So I think you're gonna be alright.

JASPER: Yeah, just dial it in right underneath, right underneath.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: You got this.

ERIC: Uh, my friend Nora is also in a, like, women's plus softball league with, like, anyone who's not—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —like a cis man is kind of just, like, in this general league. And it seems like it's all vibes and it's cool. So, again, I think that like—

JASPER: Mmmm.

ERIC: —you'll be able to really easily find the temperature, and, like, Nora played high school softball for a very long time. So I think that like—

JASPER: Mmm.

ERIC: I— I think that you might be worried, but I think you can do it.

JASPER: I believe in you.

ERIC: Yeah. And finally, I just want to touch on something we said before, because this one is from Dylan and the— the nickname I'm giving to Dylan is Money, Money, Money?

JASPER: Money, Money, Money, Money? Yeah.

ERIC: [singing] Money.

JASPER: [singing] Money, money, money.

ERIC: Question mark.

JASPER: [singing] Money.

ERIC: “Is front office strategy part of the game in pro sports? I love sports, but I get no joy from analyzing trades, draft picks, contracts, financial fair play rules, options, arbitration team ownership, whatever a Rule 5 draft is, et cetera. Should I care as part of supporting my team? Is it part of the game?” Uh, no, the nerds got their hands on it, and you can like sports however you like.

JASPER: Uh, I'm just gonna do another plug for football here. Come over to football, because you get to enjoy what's called the transfer window. Now, the transfer window is the Wild West.

ERIC: Sure.

JASPER: It is absolutely crazy. There's no real math involved, other than just dumb made-up maths.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Like one team will just say, "This person is worth £100 million." And then that guy's just worth £100 million pounds now. There's no rhyme or reason to it. We have this thing that tracks like the— this, like, sport observatory thing that apparently tracks player worth, but it means nothing.

ERIC: No.

JASPER: That's never what a player goes for. So, it's absolutely fascinating. So check out football. If you don't enj— if you find it hard to get into like— because I also do not understand the draft system at all. It makes zero sense to me. It's so complicated. Whereas in football, it's just like, "Hey, I'm gonna give you a huge chunk of money and then we get that player." And the drama surrounding it is very, very, very fun.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Like players on transfer deadline day, because it's literally like a timer that ticks down to 11:00 P.M.

ERIC: That's awesome.

JASPER: And players will be driving to the training ground of the team they're hoping to join, and they'll get— wait for a call from their agent to say they can go in and do their medical.

ERIC: That's awesome.

JASPER: And like sometimes— a lot of times, it won't happen. And so you'll just see a player just, like, driving away from a ground and having— whilst they’ve been plastered on the front page of Sky Sports News, there was a guy— there was a famous one, this guy called Peter Odemwingie who drove down to the training ground of this team he was hoping to join. Uh, the team then pivoted, signed a different player. He was sat in the car park and watched the player that they bought, instead of him, walk in. He's plastered on Sky Sports News, like everywhere. And then he asked to go back to his old teammates and play, because I'm pretty sure this is the January transfer window. So, he had, like, a game with his team, like, the next week.

ERIC: Yeah, that’s tight as hell.

JASPER: He was probably in training, like, the next day.

ERIC: Yeah, that's awesome. Um, I like this because of the intersection of American sports with workers' rights. I find it deeply interesting about, like, the money and this whole thing. And I understand that, like, we're talking about millionaires, but remember, the people who own sports teams are kajillionaires and billionaires, right?

JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not even close.

ERIC: So it's just like— uh, you know, I find it interesting in the numbers. I think that people— there's— oh, I could have a whole conversation about, like, nerds taking over everything and ruining regular people's fun. And also, the pervasiveness of sports gambling that's gotten to every single crevice of sport.

JASPER: Ugghh.

ERIC: Especially, like, in media now, like all my podcasts, all my sport— no one wants me to gamble more than my sports podcasts. It's like I have a bookie in my life.

JASPER: Yeah. Oh, oh. Dude, it's— it's a problem.

ERIC: Yes.

JASPER: Like, when I found out why there's a bunch of, uh, Chinese writing, like, around all the advertising hoardings in football right now—

ERIC: Mm-hmm.

JASPER: —absolutely mind-blowing. It's because you can't legally advertise gambling in China, so Chinese gambling—

ERIC: Really?

JASPER: —companies are now buying spots in the Premier League, because it's the most-watched, uh, foreign league in China. So they buy spots and they sponsor teams, so that they can put just fully Chinese adverts only appealing to Chinese people in China to then go and gamble on their stuff because they're not allowed to pub— it is wild how much, uh, gam— gambling is like a serious issue and definitely—

ERIC: Totally. A hundred percent.

JASPER: —a whole other side pod, like wow.

ERIC: I just don't— I don't get it and it's like— it used to be kind of like a grimy thing, at least very much in America. But now, it got like—

JASPER: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

ERIC: Now, that it's legalized through like FanDuel and other, like, online betting stuff, they're like— it's just everywhere. ESPN, Jasper, is like 50% gambling stats now. Like, they talk—

JASPER: Hmm. Hmm.

ERIC: —about lines constantly, they talk about the best bets and stuff. It pops up all over— even like in the halftime of games, they're talking about, like, "Fan— oh, make this bet on FanDuel” or some— or some stuff. Also, like, The Ringer is totally in bed with it at the same time. It's really gross and it's really weird.

JASPER: Yeah, it's gross.

ERIC: So that— that's also part of it. But the— the thing is mostly about the workers’ rights. Again, the drama— like we said in the beginning of the episode, the drama surrounding business in sports—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: —activates like the ‘true crime’ part of my brain.

JASPER: Oh, dude, I go in rabbit holes like you wouldn't believe.

ERIC: Mm-hmm.

JASPER: We joke that I have a podcast now, which has an audience of one, it's just my wife. Um, and basically, it's because— it's her favorite podcast because I— I play it for her when she goes to sleep. Uh, and when I say I play it for her, I mean, I literally sit in bed and I go, "Boo, boo, boo, boo." That's the theme music. "Boo, boo, boo, boo. Hey, everyone, it's me."

ERIC: And then you just tell her about sports?

JASPER: And I put on this really dorky voice for some reason that's not actually my voice where I’m just like, [in higher pitched voice] “Hey, everyone. It's me, Jasper, and, uh, today, we'll talk about Arsenal transfer targets." [in regular voice] And it's basically just me reeling off all of this stuff that I found and it's like, I'll go in the weeds, dude. Like, I'm out here, tracking the cloud formations in the back of players' Instagram posts to see if they're in England.

ERIC: I love that.

JASPER: Or if they're still in France.

ERIC: That's sick. That's sick. I love this.

JASPER: You know what I mean? [giggles] That's the levels that we're going to, like Arsenal transfer watching, uh, community is— we are in the trenches—

ERIC: Mm-hmm.

JASPER: —finding out information. It's wild.

ERIC: Yeah. So, uh— and I'll be a guest on that podcast when I visit you. I'm really excited.

JASPER: Yeah, yeah. Exactly. You— you can come listen to my bedtime podcast.

ERIC: This is so great. I'm just gonna sit by the side of your bed while Jade is trying to go to sleep.

[laughter]

ERIC: I'll be like, "Oh, great. I love this."

JASPER: So normal.

ERIC: "This is— this is wonderful.”

JASPER: So normal. So normal.

ERIC: "Hey, I'm so happy to be here. I just want to plug my podcast, Games and feelings." And Jade is trying to sleep.

JASPER: Just trying to go to sleep.

ERIC: So what I would say— what I would say to you, Money, Money, Money?, is like, it's just another way to follow it. And if you're not into it—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —it's fine. And I— I'm sorry that the nerds who create all of the media are now— all they can do—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —is talk about it. It's also wild because, I mean, I think that this happens the most in basketball just from the way that it's laid out and also because like— listen, I could spend an entire time talking about, um, the Process. Do you know about the Process and Sam Hinkie?

JASPER: No.

ERIC: Basically, it’s this like— this, like, mathematical thing about tanking and collecting all of these draft picks and the draft picks potential are— is infinitely more valuable than— than actual value. Like, a draft pick is way more valuable than a player. The whole thing is to say— it's just a way for people to consume it and you don't have to worry about it. Um, it's— it's just— it's frustrating watching teams mortgage their future for this very specific stuff—

JASPER: Mmmmm.

ERIC: —so you can’t understand why something is happening. Because, again, a lot of this stuff—

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: —is about chemistry, just as much as it is about, uh, numbers and— and—

JASPER: A hundred percent.

ERIC: —future draft picks. You know, I think there's also, like, a thing and I— we talked about this before when we were talking about Marvel movies, about how, like, everyone—

JASPER: Hmm.

ERIC: —thinks they're Kevin Feige, and at the same time, everyone thinks they’re the GM of their— their favorite sports team. And they could be, because they’re just—

JASPER: Mm-hmm.

ERIC: —guys, you know? Guys who know things and I think—

JASPER: Yeahhh. No, but just to clarify, though, I could— I could actually be the technical director of Arsenal, like— I know— I know enough. I just want to clarify. I—

ERIC: So that's why people are so into it. That's why.

JASPER: Yeah.

ERIC: Yeah. So you don't know have to be, but I know it's all over the place. Uh, I like it and Jasper likes it, but you don't have to, I promise.

JASPER: Yeah, it's absolutely fine. We are about to sign Declan Rice and it's a very exciting time to be an Arsenal fan, so— you know what I mean? This is good. It's—

ERIC: And as an Arsenal fan, I'm also very excited about it. Yeah.

JASPER: Yes! Yes!

ERIC: You con—

JASPER: Yes, dude.

ERIC: You convinced me.

JASPER: Yes, dude. Yes, dude.

ERIC: Incredible.

JASPER: That's right.

ERIC: Uh, well, Jasper, this has been Oops All Sports! Thanks for letting us talk about sports, folks.

JASPER: Yes! Thank you for the four people that have listened to this and who aren’t like, "Why do I want to listen to this? I didn’t sign up for a sports podcast."

ERIC: Jasper, I had a basketball podcast. They know. It's fine.

JASPER: Oh, yeah, that's true. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

ERIC: They know. It's— they know. They like it. They like it.

JASPER: Okay. Cool, cool. All right. There's at least six of them.

ERIC: Yeah, exactly. Polly Burrage is a hundred percent here. Polly is from Australia, too, and Polly loved hearing me talk about the NBA. And then Polly loves one particular team in Australian rules football. And I'm like—

JASPER: Oh, what a game.

ERIC: And I— I follow her on some socials and I'm just like, "Great. I— I am so happy for you."

JASPER: Oh, I should have said that. I should have said that. Oh my God. Watching Australian rules football, Aussie rules football is absolutely incredible. I do not understand that game at all.

ERIC: No. No, absolutely not.

JASPER: And I've been to multiple games and it's just madness. It is just pure Australian madness. Honestly, all they need to do is throw, like, a big, I don't know, dangerous animal in the middle of that field and it's just— that is Australia.

ERIC: It's wild.

JASPER: Like, that's the only thing that's missing from Aussie rules football. It's just put like a giant red kangaroo in the middle.

ERIC: There should be a Tasmanian devil in the middle of the field - that would make it a little bit better.

JASPER: In the middle of the pitch.

ERIC: Yeah.

JASPER: Just to add some, you know— that's the only thing that would make it more Australian. Otherwise, it is a perfect encapsulation of them.

ERIC: It seems awesome. I just have no idea about it. I'm like— “I'm so happy for you.” Um, so this is wonderful—

JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ERIC: —Jasper. Where can people now— if— where can people hear you talk about nerd shit instead?

JASPER: Yay. You can hear me, uh, talk about nerd shit over at Three Black Halflings. We've got loads of cool stuff going on over there and you can follow me @JW_Cartwright. And, hey, listen, I've been wanting to do a sports podcast for ages—

ERIC: Mm-hmm.

JASPER: —for so long. If one person DMs me and says, "Hey, you should do a sports podcast." I will do it.

ERIC: Jasper, I truly need you to stop making podcasts so you can keep—

JASPER: No! I refuse! One of them is gonna work.

ERIC: Just keep doing the ones you're doing, please.

JASPER: One of these days— one of these days, one of them is gonna work, Eric.

ERIC: They do— what are you talking about? They very much work.

JASPER: No, Eric. I mean, one of these days I'm going to sell out Wembley, doing a podcast.

ERIC: Jasper, no one does that.

JASPER: That's what I mean.

ERIC: That doesn't exist.

JASPER: Yes, but I will.

ERIC: Oh my God.

JASPER: But I will.

ERIC: And you can listen to the other episodes that I make on other podcasts. Go listen to Join the Party and Tell Me About It. I think you'll really like it.

JASPER: Whoo!

ERIC: Jasper, thanks for doing Oops All Sports! with me.

JASPER: Thank you for letting us do Oops All Sports! I’ve had a great time.

ERIC: Thank you. And, bruv, there's nothing in the rulebook that says a dog can't play basketball, and that dog has feelings. Dog— dog feelings, yeah.

JASPER: Dogs.

[theme song plays]

ERIC: Games and Feelings is produced by Eric Silver and edited and mixed by Mischa Stanton. The theme music is ‘Return to French Toast Castle’ by Jeff Brice. And the art was created by Jessica Boyd. Find transcripts for this episode, and all episodes, at our website, gamesandfeelings.com. Until next time, press X to enjoy the podcast.

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