Can You Tell the Difference Between Pathfinder and D&D? With Jenna Stoeber and Jasper Cartwright
We’ve unlocked a new podcast guest! It’s video essayist and very cool internet person Jenna Stoeber. She’s joining Eric & Jasper to answer questions about bringing a new combat-focused epic TTRPG into your life, exploiting rules-as-written loopholes, and if a rhythm game should necessitate having rhythm.
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Credits
- Host, Producer, & Question Keeper: Eric Silver
- Permanent Guest: Jasper Cartwright
- Editor & Mixer: Mischa Stanton
- Music by: Jeff Brice
- Art by: Jessica Boyd
- Multitude: multitude.productions
About Us
Games and Feelings is an advice podcast about being human and loving all types of games: video games, tabletop games, party games, laser tag, escape rooms, game streams, and anything else that we play for fun. Join Question Keeper Eric Silver and a revolving cast of guests as they answer your questions at the intersection of fun and humanity, since, you know, you gotta play games with other people. Whether you need a game recommendation, need to sort out a dispute at the table, or decide whether an activity is good for a date, we’re your instruction manual. New episodes drop every other Friday.
Transcript
ERIC: Hello, Gamers. Welcome to Games and Feelings, an advice show about playing games, being human, and dealing with the fact that those games will involve other humans. I'm your host and question-keeper, Eric Silver. And the game show that I think I would do great at is Press Your Luck, which is kind of just like the one where people go, no whammy, no whammy, no whammy, stop. And I think I would look pretty good saying, no whammies, no whammy, no whammy, stop. Permanent guest, Jasper Cartwright, what game show do you think you'd go—you would do well at?
JASPER: I think The Wall, definitely The Wall. Have you heard of The Wall? Do you have that over there?
JENNA: Wow.
ERIC: Oh, produced by LeBron James? Absolutely!
JASPER: It is produced by Lebron James? I had no idea, that's hilarious. I've never watched it but—
ERIC: Because you didn't get the marketing for it. Because people in the UK would care less.
JASPER: Yeah—
ERIC: Yeah, yeah. The whole thing about it was—was that LeBron produced it.
JASPER: That's hilarious. Yeah, I just think it'd be pretty good at like, twisting myself into a shape uh, as a wall.
JENNA: Oh, is that the one where you're trying to get your body in a certain pose—
JASPER: Yes.
JENNA: —and then fit through a hole in a wall?
JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JENNA: Okay.
ERIC: Okay—
JASPER: Yeah, that—
ERIC: There is a different The Wall produced by LeBron James, which is totally different.
JENNA: What?! What?!
JASPER: Right, okay, what's that? What do you have to do with that one?
ERIC: Oh, God. I forgot, it's one of those things that just goes in your brain and disappears. It was like there was a big—there was like a big Plinko Ball involved and then trivia and stuff. I'll send it to you afterward.
JASPER: Sure. Okay.
JENNA: Super great.
JASPER: Cool, cool, cool.
ERIC: I like yours better how you can turn into a wall.
JASPER: Yes, it's basically just like you see the—you see the wall coming, there's like a shape cut out of it and you have to like put yourself in a funny pose. Sometimes with like a partner or whatever you know? You have to do kind of do it together and might to help each other. And you basically not get knocked like into the water or whatever by the wall.
ERIC: Incredible. Hey, Jenna Stoeber.
JENNA: Hi!
ERIC: What game show do you think you would do great at?
JENNA: I think I'd be good at Jeopardy, cause I'm a legacy. My grandma won on Jeopardy once many, many decades ago.
JASPER: Woaaah!
ERIC: What?!
JASPER: Woaaah! Mic drop, heck yes!
JENNA: So I feel like it's in my blood, right? To be good—
JASPER: Yes.
JENNA: —at Jeopardy.
JASPER: It is. It is.
ERIC: Was your grandma like, training you from day—from like day one? She gives you a fake buzzer and be like you can’t buzzer too early or then Mr. Trebek will just knock it out.
JENNA: I—no it's more than a passive training where she would be like, see this vase I got it from winning Jeopardy. It is back when like the thing that you won on Jeopardy was like a furniture set, like a living room set.
ERIC: Sure.
JASPER: That's so cool, I love that.
JENNA: Instead of just hard cash. Yeah.
JASPER: I love that.
ERIC: That's incredible. Now I want to go find it, and take a—and like take a screenshot from that image and then just like put it next to you, hold like a buzzer, you know?
JENNA: She had the VHS, we would watch it sometimes when I was over there. Her glory days on Jeopardy.
JASPER: I love that.
ERIC: Oh, wow.
JENNA: I don't know what happened to that though. I hope one of my relatives has it.
ERIC: That's fair. Jenna, I didn't realize that the opposite of training you, was just flexing on you perpetually.
JENNA: Yeah, yeah.
JASPER: Yeah.
JENNA: To really get me in. That's what the eye— what the Eye of the Tiger is. You look in the eye of the tiger and think, man I want to be a tiger.
ERIC: Man, the Tiger is so cool. I wish I had that vase like that Tiger.
JENNA: Yeah, exactly.
JASPER: Tiger so cool.
ERIC: Incredible. Jenna, thank you so much for coming on Games and Feelings, I'm so happy to have you.
JENNA: Yeah, I'm excited to be here to talk about Games and Feelings, two of my favorite things.
ERIC: I’m sure you love– my understanding is that you love both Games and Feelings, is that correct?
JENNA: I do!
ERIC: Jenna, if people don't know who you are, where would people know you from the internet/what are you doing now?
JENNA: Yeah. They probably knew me, formerly, from Polygon. I'm now an independent creators, so I've got all the things that independent creator has, which is a Tiktok and a YouTube—two YouTube channels actually. I'm also on Twitch @the__Jenna. I'm on Twitter, in so much as Twitter is still extant.
JASPER: Yup.
JENNA: But mostly I'm still—I'm still doing video essays on YouTube. So you can find me there and you should, and you should subscribe and like all my videos.
JASPER: Yeah do that.
ERIC: Hell yeah.
JENNA: Yeah.
ERIC: Jenna, did I ever tell you that I actually based like what you used to do, as in your Master's Degree on a character that I wrote into an audio drama?
JENNA: I think you have mentioned that actually, weirdly, I think you have. Yeah, cause my Master's Degree is in media and culture, which is why I'm so good at making videos about media and culture.
ERIC: Is your like thesis on horror movies, or did I make that up?
JENNA: Ye—It was, yeah. My specialty was video game communities and horror culture.
JASPER: Amazing.
ERIC: Yeah.
JENNA: Yeah.
ERIC: I always thought it was so sick. And I loved that the horror movie videos that you did at Polygon.
JASPER: Yeaah.
ERIC: And I just like you know what, that's really cool. I like the idea that someone did their Master's Degree in horror in—and this is me taking your life and processing it into something else. Be like I love the idea that someone would do this and me, do a Master's in horror movies, and I just—
JASPER: Yeaaah.
ERIC: —put it in an audio drama character. So thank you for your interesting life and for allowing me to turn it into art a little bit.
JASPER: Thank you for being interesting, Jenna.
JENNA: You're we—
ERIC: Yeah.
JENNA: —you're welcome. You're welcome. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you.
ERIC: Yeah. And you're so interesting that you're absolutely qualified to answer some advice questions on what we're going to do on this episode.
JASPER: Yeaaah.
ERIC: But first, we're going to do our segment that we always do, which is games that are giving us feelings. As we talk about games that we're currently playing, that doesn't have to come out anytime soon. You can play games for various reasons, and the feelings that you're getting and we're going to assign an adjective to it like Live Journal. You remember Live Journal? The 20-year-old listening to this podcast, I'm sure you do. Jenna as our guest, do you have a game that is giving you feelings and what is the feeling it's giving you?
JENNA: So I just finished Hi-Fi Rush, which everybody is—
ERIC: Hell yes.
JENNA: —losing their absolute minds over? Have y'all played Hi-Fi Rush yet?
ERIC: Yes, I played all the way through. I started playing like the end-game stuff as well. And I think I mentioned on here, just to say that like I love the way that a media express it, like one medium expressing a different medium. Like Scott Pilgrim was a movie expressing music and video games. And this is a video game expressing music. I just say it was now I thought it was really fun. Yeah. How are you loving Hi-Fi— how you feeling about Hi-Fi Rush?
JENNA: Hahaha. I see you assume that I loved it, and that was your big mistake! I did. I did. There's a lot I loved about it. But I think that my Live Journal feeling is I think mainly conflicting.
ERIC: Sure.
JENNA: Because aesthetically, the game is so primo, and the way that it implements the rhythm elements and the beat elements in just so many parts of it visually, like all of the trees and everything bumping along to the beat, that you keep the beat with it is so, so satisfying. And I think the level design is incredible. And it—did such a game, It's such like a game ass game, which I really love.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: It's a whole ass game. I love it.
JENNA: It's a who—like you're like wow, this is a game. These is video games. But I—in the actual playing of it, I found the movement tech to be really unsatisfying. And so that made it just as from like a pure gameplay standpoint, I found it really frustrating because like you have like the dash. And if you hit the dash—
ERIC: Yup.
JENNA: —timely in three times in a row, you get like a little bit of a boost. But then there's like this reset animation. So you can't really string together dashes in an endless way. And so—
ERIC: Yeah.
JENNA: —I felt like every time I was getting any sort of momentum, the game made me forced me to reset to the beat. And that was really frustrating for me.
ERIC: Yeah, I remember doing those strings of dashes, but I never did it in a fight. I always did it while I was running. But it felt like I was just like keeping time like I was an ambient drummer. Like I was just doing like the triplicates of like 123 rest, 123, rest.
JENNA: Yeah.
ERIC: But that's not, I was just being like, there because— the main character runs on beat. So he's so slow unless you dash.
JENNA: Yeah—
JASPER: Right.
JENNA: —he walks on beat—
ERIC: He walks on beat, yeah.
JENNA: —Notably. There is no run. And that was always so infuriating for me, is it just like, the game really wants to enable you to act on the beat, but it also restricts you to acting on the beat?
JASPER: Woah. Ehh.
ERIC: It's like that's the— that's the double-edged sword. It's like, well, you don't have to hit the beat. You want it, you get bonuses if you're on beat. But therefore all of your actions are on beat, regardless of what your button presses are.
JENNA: Yeah.
ERIC: Which is complicated.
JENNA: Yeah. And I really liked the combat. I thought the combat was really satisfying. But then so much of the game is platforming, and walking and jumping and I just didn't— that didn't satisfy me very much. So conflicted.
ERIC: Jenna, when you play RPGs are you a run-out-of-the-way kind of person? Are you a parry and block person?
JENNA: Ooohh.
ERIC: Because in Hi-Fi Rush, they make it essential to know how to parry on beat. And Jasper, fucking hard, fucking hard as hell.
JENNA: It's so hard.
ERIC: So like I'm a dasher out of the like Dark Souls and Elden Ring.
JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Roll away.
ERIC: I may roll out of the way person.
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: I don't give a shit about parrying.
JASPER: No, I hate parrying, it does my head and I can never time it right.
ERIC: So like, that was really difficult for you?
JASPER: Yeah.
JENNA: Yeah. Yeah, that was another thing that I thought was really interesting, because part of the pitch of the game is that they wanted to make a rhythm game where you didn't have to have good rhythm, which I think is funny—
ERIC: Yeah.
JENNA: —and good. I think it's a good concept. But then oh, just kidding. There are these mandatory parry sections where actually you do need to have really good rhythm.
JASPER: I kind of feel like— I kind of feel like I get to see how that like meeting went, with the like kicking. So we're gonna make a rhythm game where you don't need to have good rhythm. And then they all sat there for half an hour and went okay, it's not really possible. So, like let's just make—let's just make a cool rhythm game and hope nobody notices. Because like, that does seem like a really flawed concept. As someone without– with bad rhythm, I'm very tempted to try this game out, to really stress test this game because let me tell you, my rhythm isn't great. Like I can—I can dance, but like when it comes to like, yeah, playing an instrument or whatever I'm—I go, poof.
JENNA: Well, I think you'd still be able to crush Hi-Fi Rush because it really is. It is well-designed to—so that you can still be good at the game, even if you're not good at rhythm. So to answer your question no, Eric, I'm a—I'm a— I'm a dodge baby. I like to do little dashes—
ERIC: Yes.
JENNA: —and rolls. And I like to maneuver around the battlefield. And I mean, the game doesn't give you—like I really— I made a lot of use of the grappling hook that lets you grapple and get close to enemies.
ERIC: Love that. Yeah.
JENNA: And so I was just always bouncing around the battlefield, bopping people and then disappearing before they could hit me. But then it grinds to a halt to do these parry sections, and that was infuriating.
ERIC: Yeah. The only time that I really liked it, was when you're fighting a boss because the boss mechanics are—I think are really interesting. In the way that like, in a Tabletop RPG setting, you can do interesting stuff, it's not just like kill boss. It's like a contest or something.
JENNA: Yeah.
ERIC: And it reminded me of the boss battle in Scott Pilgrim, where it's like doing a rhythm section back and forth at each other?
JENNA: Yeah.
ERIC: And I thought that was interesting. It's like, oh, yeah, doing a rhythm game allows you to do a different type of boss battle. But like again, I was just like, fuck, I also have bad rhythm and I’m doing so badly at this.
JENNA: I think it—my experience was also tainted by the fact that I was streaming the game and—
ERIC: Oh my god.
JENNA: So I had to use the—da DRM-free audio. So I didn't— I didn't play it with the original audio that they chose for it. I played it with the streaming audio.
ERIC: Sure.
JASPER: Oh, wild
JENNA: And yeah—and the— the original soundtrack that they have, absolutely slap. it's a very good. But I think there are some portions of it that didn't quite line up. But I say that and maybe I was just bad at the game.
ERIC: That's okay. I can't believe you did it on stream and I watched you on stream—
JENNA: Yes.
ERIC: –do it as well. And I'm just like Jesus Christ, Jenna is opening herself up to people saying, oh, she's bad at games and has no rhythm. Jesus Christ, I don’t know.
JENNA: Well here's the thing is I am good at games. I beat five of the six bosses on the first try in that game. And that is hard for any game.
ERIC: Yo.
JENNA: But for this game in particular, because they throw new mechanics at you, mid-boss battle frequently. It was— it was a pretty stellar run. It was the second to last boss, I did not successfully beat on the first try, which was so devastating.
ERIC: Oh yeah. That's awesome, Jenna, you’re incredible
JASPER: Yeah, incredible.
ERIC: You're—you're a cool Gamer Girl—
JENNA: Thank you.
ERIC: —and we know it, and congratulations.
JENNA: Thank you.
ERIC: Your certificate will be in the mail. It will be there within five to seven business days. Incredible. Yeah. Hi-Fi Rush, very nice and conflicted. I can assume you're like making like a thinking face and also grimacing a little bit.
JENNA: Yeah. Well, if we're doing Live Journal, I probably had like— when I had a Live Journal I had like custom emotes for all the—
ERIC: Oh sure.
JENNA: Do you remember how you could just download like emotion packs for all the feelings? So I probably would have had like a Sandman-themed emoji.
ERIC: I know. I know, It's probably one of the characters but I’m now imagining that it's Neil Gaiman that making all the faces. Like a cartoon Neil Gaiman.
JENNA: Honestly could have been, yeah, that would have been amazing. I would have downloaded that.
ERIC: Hell yeah. Got it well. Jasper, what's a game that giving you feelings, my man?
JASPER: The game that is giving me feelings is Thirsty Sword Lesbians by Evil Hat Productions.
ERIC: Hell yeah.
JASPER: We played it on Three Black Halflings last night.
ERIC: Yes.
JASPER: It's my first time properly playing a Powered by the Apocalypse-like game system. And first time with Thirsty Sword Lesbian, and it was kick ass. It was so cool. It was a lot of fun. And like, I've been a big fan of like Monster Hearts. And so really wanted to play a Powered by the Apocalypse game. And I was just kind of really fascinated by playing a game that has like, actual emotional and social mechanics. Because it's something that I've railed against, like, you know, other TTRPGs for not having kind of appropriate social and emotional mechanics. So it kind of requires a lot of heavy lifting on the part of the player.
ERIC: Sorry, Charm Person isn't good enough for you?
JASPER: Um, you know what it's just that— that it's— it's trash, like, ju— just that, it’s like, it is not enough. So, yeah, it's trash. And it's the sole reason why you know typically like actors or performers are very kind of naturally like high charisma people tend to play those games, because they are capable of doing that kind of heavy lifting without thinking, and I think it's really fun to play a game that very much like held you in that. And I feel like we able to like hit emotional notes and things whilst playing that game like very, very easily and very quickly without feeling disingenuous or so. Yeah, had a fantastic time playing that game. It's so much fun. The mechanics like made for just such a hilarious game and like the whole thing, just it—it—yeah. I think it's a great lesson and I'm very excited to hear it. So yeah, Thirsty Sword Lesbians. Props to Evil Hat games, it's awesome. It's making me feeeeel— it's making me feeeeeel, uhhhh, fantastic. Like, it did! Like I kind of felt like just afterward, I just felt kind of like really like I wanted to, like, run around a little bit like yeah, this was fun! You know what I mean? I just felt like— I felt like someone had come over and like stroked my mental health, you know? Just been like hey, you're—you're good. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's what I needed. That was lovely. I just had a great time with my friends is talking about my emotions.
ERIC: Shhh. Shhh. We’re petting you like a horse?
JASPER: Yeah, literally, that's exactly what it was—
JENNA: Yeaah.
JASPER: This is exactly what it is, this is great.
JENNA: What a great pitch for a game.
ERIC: Incredible. Yeah, you can just buy Thirsty Sword Lesbians anywhere that you can pick this stuff up. I also did not know it was from Evil Hat specifically, which is awesome.
JASPER: Me either.
ERIC: Evil Hat has been making such interesting stuff lately. Especially me combing over Monster the Week stuff for what we did on Join the Party. Like I'm really excited about the new expansion for Monster the Week, which they're coming out with, which has, like, you know, team moves now which is really cool. And I'm just super fucking stoked about that. Listen, there's 147 books in stock, and I assume all the listeners are gonna buy all that. So y'all better fucking get on that.
JASPER: Get on it. Eric, what game’s giving you feelings?
ERIC: Oh, shit. You hosted me back!
JASPER: That’s–look! See I'm getting it—
JENNA: Ooooooh, flip it!
JASPER: I'm getting it, look got—you know what I mean?
ERIC: I love it.
JASPER: You know what I mean, I'm here.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: I'm here, I’m doing it.
ERIC: Yeah. My emotion— I'm gonna start with my adjective first, I am resigned because—
JENNA: Why?
ERIC: —listen, I'm gonna see the Super Mario movie, as soon as it comes out.
JENNA: Ha, it fucking got you.
ERIC: Listen man, It's—there's something I think about the fact that Illumination is making it which are the Minions folks. And then it's not like Disney, or something else. Like I'm not saying that Illumination isn't like a very large company as a part of it. But I feel like it's like, yeah, it's just out there, why not? I'm just gonna do it. It looks so cool. They're doing a Nintendo Direct specifically for the final trailer of it, and I hate that.
JENNA: Uhhhh-mazing.
ERIC: Like, it's like I would love—
JENNA: Yeah, that's terrible.
ERIC: —Mario Odyssey 2, I want that, I want that so bad. But you know what I want just as much, to watch this fucking movie.
JASPER: Yeah.
JENNA: In a good way or in like a hate-watch way?
ERIC: No, in a good way. I think it looks really fun. I don't care about all of the fan service. I think that there's actually like deep cuts they can put in especially like as comparing the D&D movie as compared to the Mario movie. Like you know, they put out that— that trailer during the Super Bowl. I don't know if you all saw that. Because Jasper you don't live in the country where people give a shit about the Super Bowl. And Jenna, I don't know about your football predilections.
JENNA: Number one football fan in the world. I love that old Handegg thing.
JASPER: Yes, thank you for calling it by its appropriate name, Handegg, and not football because it's not football. Points to you, Jenna. Carry on, Eric.
ERIC: Man, sports ball would have been so much better if it was Handegg. Like Chris Hardwick just saying Handegg instead that would have been–
JENNA: Pass me the Handegg.
JASPER: And he’s handing off the Handegg!
ERIC: You know, it's wild in Irish-style rugby, it is called the Handegg, so that's actually pretty interesting.
JENNA: Is it?
ERIC: No, it's not.
JENNA: Oh, okay. Okay, you fucking got me. See, that's how little I know about football.
JASPER: As the number one fan, I feel like you should probably know more about it. Just saying, you know.
JENNA: I'm more of an emotive fan.
ERIC: That's fine. That's have—that's the majority of being a fan.
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: You're totally on the way.
JENNA: Yeah.
JASPER: Absolutely.
JENNA: Facts, data, no.
ERIC: Jenna, I'll teach you how to scream about the Knicks at some point, I'll be fine. So yeah, the— so they released this like commercial, which was like a plumbing commercial for the Mario Bros. and like—
JASPER: Oh yeah.
ERIC: It was really interesting and have like a lot of like Nintendo and older lore in it. Which is like from games from like the 1980s, and from the Mario Super Show, like the song was really similar to the one from the Mario Super Show. And I'm like, alright, you know that's cool. I like it. I like that you're giving it to me. Like Rainbow Road looks cool. All the Mario Kart stuff looks cool. There was like a world from Odyssey that was flashed really quickly, like the desert level that was on there. And like it just looks nice. And I just liked the idea that they're just kind of putting it out and maybe it's like the Nintendo Magic is sprinkled on it, where people aren't. Like the American need of companies to shove something in your face and be like you love this right, you love it? And maybe like Nintendo is just being like not doing that and I kind of like that. But like I am gonna see the movie, I'm just like, I'm resigned. of how much I'm going to love it.
JASPER: Yeah, that's fair. I feel like I would love it if it was Pratt-less Like, I think if it was Pratt-less–
ERIC: Sure.
JASPER: –I'd be like, really involved.
JENNA: Yeah.
JASPER: But like, I'm just kind of like yeah, this guy, I mean—
JENNA: I don’t like him.
ERIC: Nope.
JASPER: Yeah, it's—that's only about a cut of his jib, which I just—I'm like, I don't know if I trust you, you just seem kind of not good.
JENNA: Yeah, he's not.
ERIC: It's definitely from his church affiliation, that’s the worst– that’s the reason why.
JASPER: Yeah. Yeah.
JENNA: Yeah, 100%
ERIC: I 100% agree. I don't like Chris Pratt, and we're like all the shit he stands for. And his Mario is stupid. And I also think that Anya Taylor-Joy makes Princess Peach to sound like a regular human woman. But like, all the other casting, it's fucking awesome. So it's like, I don't know—
JENNA: Yes. Jack Black primo.
JASPER: Yeah, to be fair, I haven't see any of the other casting to be fair. But the thing is, what I'm annoyed at, is the fact that we got what's probably going to be the best Mario movie of the year from SNL. That—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: This—
JENNA: Oh, I haven't seen that yet, I keep meaning to.
JASPER: —you need to watch the sketch of Pedro Pascal, It's me, Mario. It's incredible. It is so damn funny. And I was like this I could see, this I would 100% pay my money right now to go and watch this. This is incredible.
ERIC: Truly Pedro Pascal for every single role. He's so talented, it's crazy.
JASPER: I saw the funniest thing, someone screenshotted a—what I genuinely thought was like a real news article for a split second. And it said Science—science reveals that by 2040 all— all TV shows were involved Pedro Pascal escorting a magical baby somewhere. And then sent a picture of The Mandalorian and Last of Us and I was like, that's incredible. That—also I'm fine with it. Like, let's have—let's just have that be the plot of everything, that's fine.
JENNA: What a niche.
JASPER: What a niche.
JENNA: Yeah.
[theme]
ERIC: Hey, it's Eric. And I picked up some snacks for Games and Feelings. I got you a pizza that I found on the street. It replenishes 20 HP and there were a bunch of turtles around it, I'm sure that's fine. Yeah, don't worry about it. Ordinarily, this is where I tell you to subscribe to the Patreon which you should still do at patreon.com/gamesandfeelings. But really, I want you to recommend this show to a friend. The best way to grow a podcast is through word of mouth. And you know if you're enjoying this, if you like the balance of comedy and actual giving of advice, you want someone to talk intelligently or at least kind of knowledgeably about games. You like Jasper, you like the weekly setup, just tell people about the show, please. We would love the show to keep growing and we need the Games and Feelings folks to make that happen. Shout-out as always to producer-level patrons Polly Burrage, Kelsey, Duffy, and Megan Moon, who are much better than us at Mario Kart, but aren't weird about it at all, and you still make it fun. Thank you patreon.com/gamesandfeelings tell people about the show. You should also check out the other shows that are part of the Multitude Collective, but today I want to tell you about something else that's exciting, it's new Multitude merch. We finally have a T-shirt and a sweatshirt. You can grab a Multitude logo Tee or a crewneck sweatshirt, now in our DFTBA store. More merch is on the way, so stay tuned for updates. And as always, all multi-crew members of the $10 tier and up get 10% off all Multitude merch. Are you team Tee or team crewneck? Tag at Multitude shows on socials once you have your merch so we can settle this debate once and for all, and of course, feature you in communications to come. Just go to our website multitude.productions. Click on the merch button and check it out today. We are also sponsored this week by Hero Forge. Hero Forge offers fully customizable tabletop minis with dozens of fantasy species and thousand of parts to choose from. Here's how I can show you how deep their creator is. I'm going to list all the different colors that you can make your hair. We got Platinum Witch, Old Salt, Wizard Gray, Wolf Pack Gray, Lone Beast Brown, Hermit Gray, Butterscotch Blonde, Maple Blonde, Corn Syrup Blonde, Blonde Wheat, Cashew Brunette, Dijon Brunette, Pecan Brunette, Almond Brunette, Walnut Brunette, Chestnut Brunette, Chitaki Brunette, Sauteed Mushroom Brunette, Black Truffle Blue Brunette, Truffle Black, Salt and Pepper, Charcoal Ice cream, Burgundy, Baharat Red, Paprika Red, Red Saffron, Rosae, Merlot, Purple Cabbage, and Eggplant. And then there's the dyed ones, the colored ones which are Tomato, Orange, Mandarin, Banana, Lemon, Nub fruit, which is like an Orange Green, Lime, Apple Watermelon Rind, Blueberry, Rubis, Leokadermis, I don't know what that is. It's like a blue-purple, Grape, Plum, Boysn Berry, Raspberry, Dragon fruit inside of a watermelon, Passion Fruit, Expensive blue-dyed plantain, Mint, Nectarine, and Peach. Visit heroforge.com to start designing your custom miniature today and check back often. New content is added every week. And now back to the games.
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ERIC: Alright at the risk of us talking about Pedro Pascal for fucking ever. Let's get to some questions, alright?
JASPER: Yep.
ERIC: I have a first one. I have a first one here, and this one is specifically to Jenna. It's from me, Eric Silver. So my fun—
JASPER: Woah.
ERIC: —my fun name who was writing in for this is uh—
JASPER: The—yeah, the fun name should be number 1 Jenna fan.
JENNA: Woaah!
ERIC: Number one Jenna fan, number one Handegg fan.
JASPER: Yeah. Number 1 Handegg fan
ERIC: It's wild that I predicted this while I was writing the letter.
JENNA: Well, you're such a big fan. You know, I call it Handegg, I don't know.
ERIC: I've gotten deep in your Polygon videos. If you've ever said “Handegg” once, I'm like, oh my God, I know it.
JASPER: I mean it.
ERIC: Yeah, you said it once on awful squad, and now I'm like, fuck, I’m in. Jenna um—
JENNA: Yeah?
ERIC: —tell us about Pathfinder, and why I need another combat-focused fantasy, prescriptive tabletop RPG in my life.
JENNA: I mean the main—my main pitch for Pathfinder is that it's just— it's better d&d, and better in so many different ways. It's sort of the middle ground. So if you familiar—3.5 is the— the number of D&D that Pathfinder is based on. And the jump from 3.5 to 4.0 in D&D was sort of tragic and terrible. Because 4.0, they were like, D&D was like, oh, man, we really—this has gotten too complicated. There's so many skills, you need a special skill to use ropes. Oh, no, we did a bad job. For 4.0, they tried to simplify things, but then they—they shifted the boat too far in the other direction and made it bad and it was just too simplified. And Pathfinder really cuts the middle ground there between like the sort of excessive rules, nature of 3.5, and the absurd simplicity of 4.0. So if you're looking for a D&D substitute, it's just— it's just better D&D. Although I like 5.0, I like some of the— I like the advantage, disadvantage system that they instituted in D&d 5.0. But like, Pathfinder itself is just like, it's streamlined. And since it came out, and since I started playing it when it came out, since then it's just expanded to have so many interesting different class varieties and ways of kind of customizing and creating little modules for your characters. And so if you're looking for a combat focus, D&D game, Pathfinders it. It's better than D&D just go for it. And you won't—you won't hardly notice a difference other than it's easier.
ERIC: To that point, I would like to follow up with you and say hey, you're on an actual play podcast called Burn Cookbook Party, correct?
JENNA: Yes I am.
ERIC: And uh—what a— what game system do you use for that?
JENNA: Oh, we happen to use Pathfinder!
JASPER: Woaaah.
JENNA: Woaah.
ERIC: Interesting. I'm looking at the art of a Burnt Cookbook Party.
JENNA: Uh-oh.
ERIC: And it says it's a D&D podcast, explain.
JENNA: Oh no, fucking entrapment. I can't believe you, Eric.
JASPER: That was—that was—obviously, you have to say to your—
JENNA: Oh shit.
JASPER: —an officer when you—before you start asking if like—if I asked you whether you're a cop, you have to tell me.
JENNA: It's too late to plead the fifth! Well Eric, here's the real reason. So I did make the logo for the show and I did play around with Pathfinder. But here's the thing and Eric, you fucking well know this. Jasper, you—
ERIC: I do.
JENNA: —probably know this too. Is that if it's not a D&D podcast game, it's really hard to get listeners
JASPER: Yep.
ERIC: Yes.
JENNA: And you'll— you'll notice it like a lot of the big D&D, actual play shows start with D&D and then kind of expand out to other systems. And there's a fucking good reason for it. It's because it's really hard to brand a show as a D&D, actual play RPG podcast if you're not doing D&D. Because nobody knows what the fuck Pathfinder is.
ERIC: Right.
JASPER: Yeah. I feel like it's like the way that we've talked about it. Is it's like the largest majority of people like, understand D&D. It's kind of a bit like English is like a—or Spanish? It's like everyone's second language. It's kind of like there isn't that second TTRPG which is like, any bigger than any other one if that makes sense? Like there's a lot of like, amazing TTRPGs that aren't—don't quite have that pool, and people don't quite understand the language of it. Therefore, it's hard for people to listen to if they don't—
JENNA: Yeah.
JASPER: —you know what I mean if they're not like committed to like, you know, figuring it out. Which once you've got a listenership, you know, then you can switch, right? Like what you're saying Jenna like bigger shows kind of switching on to a different system. Because then people are like, oh, I'm committed, I like these guys, so I don't mind spending a bit of time like familiarizing myself with new rules. But like, that's kind of the way I look at it. Like, there's just not that like—I'd probably say is Pathfinder is like the biggest one. But like, it's still—
JENNA: Yeah.
JASPER: —probably not like—people aren't Pathfinder literate enough? You know what I mean, for you to be like, I'm gonna stick the whole thing on this. Because, you know, it's just super hard to get people to come a little listen if they don't standard all the rules. And also Pathfinder house like mad customization. So—
JENNA: Oh yeah.
JASPER: I could definitely imagine that being like, the first episode being like, whoa, wow, where—where are we going? What are we doing? So yeah.
JENNA: Yeah, it's like built-in rules for customization too, which is like, it is actively enabling you to customize your game. But it's also like—
JASPER: So cool.
JENNA: I think the thing I like about actual play podcasts, in general, is that, if you have this base language of D&D, then the—the mechanics can kind of fade into the background, and you can focus more on like, the gameplay and the plot, and the characterization and the— the jokes, the laughter.
ERIC: Yup.
JENNA: And so I think that's something I struggle with, even with shows that started with D&D and transition to other systems is that like, the mechanics of the game suddenly become so prominent, because you have to explain this whole other system of engaging with the world. And it's sort of like, I don't need to know all the details, just roll the dice, and then tell me what the result is, and let's keep going.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: And do cool things.
JENNA: Yeah, it's done.
ERIC: First of all, I just want to say after everyone called me a cop on my own podcast is, Jenna, I think it's fucking hilarious that you played Pathfinder, and you put it on you say the D&D podcast. I think it's really funny, and I just wanted to give you the credit for the jokes in this. And I totally agree with you as someone who loves games and coming up with game mechanics, and like mushing Dungeons & Dragons, and other types of games into being like, or adding other games into it, and turning something into like, you know, how do you use a game or play to tell the story? I love doing it, but no one is as into game mechanics as I am. Especially if our listeners, they just like want to hear us make jokes and tell stories and do all that fun stuff in funny voices.
JENNA: Yeah.
ERIC:
So it's like, that's why so many shows devolve into incredibly rules light or— or flexible game systems, and which is just about storytelling. And you—you know, no one wants to sit around and hear long-form improv as a story. Like, I know that— that's like a form of podcast, but it's like, at some point, it's like, okay, we're at the end of the episode of them, we're wiping the slate clean. Or it's like, you know, something like Hello From the Magic Tavern, where it's like, the joke is, were stuck in all the stupid decisions that we've been making the entire time.
JENNA: Yeah, burdened by their own cannon. Yeah.
ERIC: Yeah, exactly, exactly. So I totally get it. I think it's interesting about the push and pull of what actual play is supposed to do, as its relates to the actual games we play, especially when we're playing another game of D&D. And you know, as table— I say this all the time, but you can see that the tabletop RPG medium has developed because the games are getting more and more specific, telling more and more specific types of stories. So if you don't want to play very specific stuff, like for example, you don't want to be a Thirsty Sword Lesbian, or a Monster Hunter or a Bigfoot or Teen Bigfoot that wants to turn people on, shout-out to Mo—Monster Hearts 2. Then like you go— you want to play something that's like broad which is where— where you get something like D&D or Pathfinder and then you gotta like, am I going to choose the thing that's more niche? Yeah. Maybe, maybe not even if it's better. Yeah.
JENNA: Yeah, I think there's room, I hope there's room for that kind of exploration. I hope there are shows out there doing like a new— a new show every week or every—every three months they switch to a different kind of game. That would be a cool concept for a game. But it is also like it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work onboarding your audience to that
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: Yeah, for sure.
ERIC: It's a— the assumption has to be going into it. Like I'm going to teach you a new game or your friends at the table and you're like just follow me, man.
JENNA: Yeah.
ERIC: Follow me man.
JASPER: Yeah, Come along with me. Yeah.
ERIC: It's like we're gonna spend a lot of time talking about Lancer and you are not going to understand anything about Lancer but you're just to follow it. Incredible. Okay, thank you, Jenna, I did not mean to put you on the spotlight, but I think it's—
JENNA: [laughs] no, it's funny.
ERIC: I think it's a—I think it's important and also, hey, do you guys have any drugs? Do you have—if you have any drugs, just let me know? I'm fine, I'm a cool guy.
JASPER: Yeah, sure. I can probably go to the supermarket get you some Paracetamol if that's what you need. Like are you in pain?
ERIC: Oh yeah. No, how about street drugs Jasper?
JASPER: Street drugs?
JENNA: Name one street drug.
JASPER: Yeah name me the street drug that you want, and I'll see what I have.
ERIC: Oh, like—like Kinder Eggs. I can’t get those United States.
JENNA: Well, guess what, I'm a cop, Eric, Kinder Eggs are illegal in America.
ERIC: Oh no!
JASPER: No! Oh my god!
JENNA: Gotcha!
JASPER: Might run away with my trench coat full of Kinder Eggs.
ERIC: Noo!
JENNA: He's getting away with the hand eggs, nooo!
ERIC: Alright, this is very funny. Alright, let's go right—let's go right into a question from a real person who's not me, shall we?
JENNA: Yeah.
JASPER: Please.
ERIC: Well, we're just talking about game mechanics, so I think that we should touch on this question from someone who wrote in and their name is Punch Me.
JASPER: Woah! That’s energy. That's a whole energy. Okay.
ERIC: I am playing a Barbarian in our games Dungeons & Dragons.
JASPER: That makes sense. Okay.
JENNA: Yes, piecing it together.
ERIC: “In D&D, we're still pretty low-level. And once my companions have used up their abilities, the first round or two, I'm pretty much the only person who could do damage or take a hit. So I'm raging a lot, and I gotta stay in rage. And they transition to support or trying to accomplish something else, while I am tanking.” The question asker wrote this in and I think this is really helpful. The Rage mechanic, as you might know— sorry, I'm editorializing, they're being really helpful. “The Rage mechanic requires that I take or deal damage each turn, so I don't get hit. Sometimes I'll ask my companions to punch me.”
JASPER: Sure.
ERIC: “Our DM hates this, but it works. And so far, he lets us get away with it. But we derail to justify it every time. Our justification basically revolves around me still taking damage, and a party member using their major action on their turn. The DM still doesn't like this, but like I said, lets us do it. Where do you fall on this? What's your argument for either way?”
JENNA: I mean if this is a struggle right? Is that if the mechanics of the game let you do it, and it sounds like this is all aboveboard, mechanically then—
JASPER: It is.
JENNA: I arguably, it's fine. But then on the other hand, D&D is not just a game about mechanics, it's a social game where you are playing with people. So if you're—if your DM hates it, then maybe it's not a great thing to do. But on the other hand, on the third hand, which is where I’m at now–
JASPER: Jenna got fou—three hands. Oh, okay.
JENNA: Yeah, I'm the—I took the Shapeshifter Barbarian class. So I've got—
JASPER: Nice.
JENNA: —third limb here.
JASPER: Nice.
JENNA: On the third hand, if your DM doesn't like it, they have the power to find a way to stop it mechanically.
JASPER: Yep.
JENNA: And so— right? Like if they just—if they hate it enough, then they can just say that don't do that anymore, find a new strategy. And I mean, I appreciate especially in longer-term games, which just kind of sounds like is going to be from a DM standpoint. Sometimes it just gets boring.
JASPER: Yeah.
JENNA: You do the same exact thing in combat every time.
JASPER: Definitely. I think like—yeah, I'm— I'm definitely with you, Jenna, I think you've outlined the different hands very well. Because I think like, first of all, yes, it's like patently, it's absolutely aboveboard. I personally don't have a problem with it in game because the Barbarian is taking damage, it's sacrificing an action of another player. And narratively, it kind of makes sense. Like, I completely buy the idea of a very angry person gets more angry when their pu—when their friends punched in the face So like, you know what I mean? Like, I buy that, that's fine. So—
JENNA: Yeah.
JASPER: —like, that's where I would rule as a DM. But I completely agree with you in the sense that if you're a DM or just like something, then you can come up with solution. My advice really here would be for the DM. Like, hey, look, if you don't like it, offer them an alternate, more se— narratively satisfying option.
JENNA: Yeah.
JASPER: Because I think DMs are very quick to be like, I really hate this, this is really bugging me. But like not kind of thinking of a way to overcome the problem, you know, which will be narratively satisfying for players. If the players are doing something that's annoying you, it's probably because the date— the players really enjoy doing it. Like the players—the players are probably having a great time, be like, yeah, punch me. And then he gets punched in it. He runs over punches someone else, do you know what I mean? Like I think that like, they're clearly having a fun time doing that. So like, why don't you find a narrative— what you say is the Barbarian. Hey, I've got a list here of things that you can do, instead of getting taking damage, I'm gonna change the mechanic. Instead of taking damage or dealing damage, you can use any of these things to keep yourself in a rage. You know what I mean? Like give them a li—
ERIC: Oooh, that's interesting.
JASPER: —a long list of like other options that they could do to keep themselves underage, which could be super stupid, do you know what I mean?
JENNA: Yeah.
JASPER: Like it could be like really funny stuff, just like you have to plank the entire round or something. Like— to be anything you want, which is something I think that will like spice it up a little bit for you as the DM, to make your player do some funny stuff. And they'll probably also really enjoy it because it'll keep them in a rage. So that'd be my—
JENNA: I love that.
JASPER: —that'd be my suggestion.
JENNA: That's such an interesting strategy for like the thing that is clearly a point of conflict. Turning that conflict into like a fun new mechanic, or a fun new strategy for the player. That's so smart, I love that.
ERIC: I really like that. Honestly, I feel like it's being achieved by people using their action to keep them in a rage and punch them.
JASPER: Yup.
ERIC: I honestly think that that's really cool.
JENNA: Yeah.
ERIC: I think they used their attack, and they actually had to attack regularly. That could be something that is important it's like, you know, as a barbarian, if you're in a rage, you can't put your defense down. So I don't think you would allow even your friend to, because you're in a frenzy to hit you without being okay with it, without like, changing your “AC” quote-unquote. So I feel like you got to do the attacks to do it. So either—and the like, you might accidentally crit on your friend, which is very funny. You might miss which I think it's funny. So you can also like, make them expend a rage token for it, to keep it going while it's going. I mean, I'm looking at it right now. And it says that a rage only lasts for one minute.
JASPER: Yeah.
JENNA: Yeah.
ERIC: And I know that that's 10 rounds in combat. But I still think that like that's not a lo of time, especially like me, you think initiative is stupid. And you will might want to like extend a fight over an error or an action sequence over more than a minute. Maybe it's like, alright, well, your rage goes away, because you've been standing around doing something for a minute. And then you got to turn it back on. Like, I wonder about this specific situation where it's like, I'm an initiative, no one has hurt me. But I want to keep my rage going. Like, I feel so narrow to me. I feel like what you're saying Jasper is like change the—like, I don't even think you need to come up with new mechanics. I just think you need to reframe what these action sequences are in terms of time. Because if we're using the letter of the law, you should use the letter of the law in terms of keeping the stuff going and how long the stuff goes for.
JENNA: Yeah.
JASPER: Yeah.
JENNA: And they you know, the game wouldn't call it a frenzy if your friends couldn't help.
JASPER: Yes. Jenna's won– Jenna's won Games and Feelings, everyone. The podcast is finished now. This is to be the last episode, thanks so much for coming.
JENNA: Thank you.
ERIC: Now, I know Jen is a cop. Because she has an earpiece where someone is feeding sick rhymes to her. Shit that was really good. You know, in other games, I—maybe you feel this way about Pathfinder Two because again, it's more of a combat-focused thing. But I feel like in other tables RPGS, I don't want to find loopholes. Because like, what's the point of like, in Monster of the Week, let's say, what's the point of rolling something and getting plus six, when you get— if you like, stack all your shit on top of each other, when you're trying to get experien— when you get experience when you fail? Like, are there other times that you do or do not want to use loopholes, outside of Dungeons & Dragons?
JASPER: I think I use loopholes all the time. I think— I love it because I feel like— it's like we always describe on Three Black Halflings as the Hey, DM moment. It's like the moment where you gotta go like, hey, DM, like, you don't get to do that. Because I got this, you know what I mean? Like, it feels like that moment, and I think that like, for me, it adds a formula element as a DM, when my player comes up with something that I'm like, will you do what? Like, oh, that's clever. Like, that's what—
JENNA: Yeah, yeah.
JASPER: —like, I feel like I'm having fun as a DM because I'm like, oh, that was good. Okay, you got me. I don't got gut and I'm okay with it, you know what I mean? So like, I'm personally in favor of loopholes and finding them. I think it adds like a fun little competitive, like, almost like a little competitive edge to a game, which I think especially like a long-standing game isn't the worst thing. Because like, I play very, like RP heavy games, does not—It's not hugely combat focused. So like, I quite enjoy a little break from that to be a bit like, whoa, okay, we're gonna put like bag of holding inside of a movable hole or whatever it is. And then everything's gonna blow up. Like, yeah, cool. Let's do i, why not? Like, let's—let's bust out okay? Calculate it for this session and see how much damage you do.
JENNA: I feel like there's a difference between loopholes which I like what you're describing and exploits.
ERIC: Sure.
JENNA: And loopholes, I love like things that are like a spontaneous understanding of the rules and your abilities to the extent that you can just do —do this loop de loop. Because that's kind of finding those—those tension points in the mechanics is part I think the joy of it. Is like, how do I use this magic spell that does this really specific thing in a unique way? I think that's so fun. But then I have also played games with people who are less into the RPG elements and more into the mid-maxing.
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: Right. And this is what I'm trying to say about Dungeons & Dragons and Pathfinder.
JENNA: Yeah.
ERIC: Mid-maxing only get—you only care about that in a combat-focused type of game.
JASPER: Yeah.
JENNA: Yes. And I was in a campaign once and there's the sticks with me because it was so obnoxious, where one character had a bag of holding, one of the most exploitable—
JASPER: Yep, yep.
JENNA: Items I think in D&D. And it just became the situation where every time we had to do a mission or a quest, it was about finding how to break it with the bag of holding. Again, it was—
ERIC: Oh my god.
JENNA: —sort of like, well, you can't breathe when you're in the bag of holding, but what if I put my whole body in the bag of holding, and then my head is outside of the bag of holding, and then you throw the bag of holding.
JASPER: Ughhh, ‘just stick my head out’. I’m with you on that one. That one sucks. I hate that one.
JENNA: Yes.
JASPER: I’ve had one of that tried to be pulled on me before I'm like get— get a grip. Like no. You're the in, or you're out.
JENNA: Right, it's just commit, commit to the bet. Hold your breath. It's fine. It's like it's that thing where sometimes a loophole becomes an exploit and it's just like, ah, we're going to the bag of holding well again. Alright, let's get another ladle full of this. It's just like obnoxious.
JASPER: This is the reason why you call and give them a flying broom, because this will happen time, and time, and time again, and it's annoying.
JENNA: Oh yeah.
JASPER: I'm with you. I— yes, I know is a very important distinction.
ERIC: There are so many items that were created by some dude in a basement in 1976. Like that's what the immovable rod is, is like—
JENNA: Yeah.
ERIC: Fuck you, Gary, I'm doing this.
JENNA: Fucking immovable rod.
JASPER: I love the immovable rod.
ERIC: Oh, God.
JASPER: I'll defend that till the day I die. That's great.
JENNA: Love it. Love it. I love the bag of holding too. I just you know, a time and a place.
JASPER: I'm with you. Yeah, 100%, like stuff like that I'm always like, okay, you can do this, but I'm going to spend the next week until our next session, finding a way to punish you for this and punish you hard. Like you know what I mean? I—like the bad guy is gonna get hold of it, and he's gonna draw the string or something and you're gonna be stuck in that bag of holding in a liminal space, and he's gonna find a way to cast like a way to you to hold your breath. He just stuck in a liminal space between states of being for the rest of your life. And that's on you, not on me.
JENNA: When you—when you're faced with an immovable rod you must become the unstoppable water.
JASPER: Yes!
ERIC: Oh my God.
JASPER: Incredible. Jenna– Jenna’s incredible. Like these lines are unbelievable. Eric, we need to leave. We need to just let Jenna have the mic.
ERIC: Yeah, that's fine. Jenna is the new host of Games and Feelings.
JASPER: So great. Done.
ERIC: I really love the idea of you doing shenanigans and then everyone hears about it and then starts doing it. I remember seeing I—when I was teaching myself how to DM, I spent a lot of time on our D&D behind the screen. Like there are some really nice subreddits out there of just like some fucking guys just talking about stuff. And like their— they were as a DM who was like, oh, yeah, you know, my players figure out how to like firebomb people through like, you know, throw turtle—they invented dynamite and then put it into like a bag of holding or threw it through like a portal, like a portal gun style portal, and it started dropping it on stuff. It's like, I don't know what to do, it's kind of trivializing all my stuff. It's like, hey, if you do it enough, then the bad guys know how to do this too.
JASPER: Yeah, 100%.
ERIC: And I think that would be really interesting, and I understand that it creates an arms race. But any type thing that you're—any type things when your players do, assume that your people are taking note. If they're like heroes of nowhere, or like people have noteworthy within the land. I think that's totally fair.
JASPER: Yeah. And also, just remember, as the DM you'll always have a bigger gun. Like, so if it gets into an arms race. Like, the players can challenge you to an arms race if you want. But you're always gonna have a bigger gun. If—you know what I mean? if—they want to throw that gauntlet down, let's go. Like we can go there.
JENNA: Can't believe you just created mutually assured destruction organically.
JASPER: Best thing, it's not mutual, because the DM will win. Like they control the flow of the universe.
JENNA: Yeah, that true.
JASPER: Like there's no way the players win that fight. Like give me any plans, and I will win like, oh I wiill—okay, it's thousand Terrasks, so what are you going to like—do you know what I mean? Like, eventually going to win?
ERIC: Or not only that, someone's gonna be like, okay, and now we're—we're doing multiverses now, so we're going to a different multiverse, where you come up with any of this shit. Congratulations, it's a Marvel movie now you did it.
JASPER: Congratulations, the Zenomorphs here now, Good luck.
ERIC: It's like finally, I get to do my Zenomorph impression [Zenomorph]. Good. I've regained the hosting energy by doing a Zenomorph impression in the microphone.
JENNA: Yeah, I can't fight that and I'm not willing to try.
JASPER: Never.
ERIC: Oh, Jenna, you don't want to, because you're a cop? Okay, great.
JENNA: Oh nooo!
JASPER: Jenna's got quips, and she’s a cop. That’s two things we’ve learned today.
JENNA: I'm too clever to be a cop, I'm sorry.
ERIC: That's your—what if your one of those super cops from Mind Hunters, is that good? Would you like that?
JENNA: Maybe a row— I'll meet you at Robocop, that's the best— my best offer.
ERIC: No, that's fair. That's totally fair. It's like if you turn into your—your tabletop RPG game becomes like post-apocalyptic, it's like great now I'm Robocop, it's what I wanted in the first place. Thank you for giving it to me.
JENNA: I just want to have a VHS player in my chest.
ERIC: I’ll just let you do that, we didn't have to do the apocalypse in our game. You could have that.
JASPER: You could have done that. That's fine.
JENNA: That's really more new flush than Robocop, I regret it.
ERIC: You could have just asked me instead of ruining our fun time together, that's why we have Games and Feelings. Oh my god, this has been so much fun. But unfortunately, the VHS player in my chest is running out.
JENNA: Oh no!
ERIC: Jenna, where can people find you on the internet of all the cool stuff that you're doing?
JENNA: Oh my god, I—just everywhere I'm on Twitter. I'm either @thejenna or @the_jenna. And every— every option possible, Tiktok, Twitter. I also have an incredible as you've heard, our actual play Pathfinder podcast. It's just Pathfinder, I'm sorry. Pathfinder podcast called Burnt Cookbook Party. It's extremely fun and silly. It's a time loop story. And things are going really good, but also really bad in the story right now. So y'all should come and hang out. It's very fun.
ERIC: Hell yeah. I also go— I also hang out in Jenna's Twitch chat, and it's fun.
JENNA: It's good.
JASPER: Yeah.
JENNA: Good chat.
ERIC: Hey, Jasper, where can people find you on the internet? What are you doing?
JASPER: They can find me on the Twitter app to @JW_Cartwright in all of my social medias. I am doing— I have Three Black Halflings, which is a show you should listen to because apparently, people will tell me it's good sometimes.
JENNA: It's rules. It's so good.
JASPER: Thank you! Eggghhh. And I'm also doing a new podcast which is coming out very soon. The next season is coming out on starting very soon. Which is called The Performance Capture Podcast, which is all about doing—being a performer in video games and the such. and using those funny little dots on your face to turn you into cool creatures and stuff like that. So if you've ever wondered how that happens—
ERIC: Hell yeah.
JASPER: How the—how the sausage or the panda gets made, as it were. Then you can rock all over that part. It's super cool and fun, and we've got some great guests this season, so that's me. Eric, where can people find more of your stuff?
ERIC: Damn. Now Jasper is the host.
JASPER: Boom. Boom.
ERIC: Fuck shit. You can always find me on the internet @El_Silvero. That is EL_S I L V E R O. My name if I was lucho libre wrestler. I am on Twitter and on Instagram for that. I have a new show out right now called Tell Me About It.
JASPER: Wooo!
ERIC: Madcap game show, which is a combination of just a fun conversational podcast about the things you love, and the most dangerous game. You know that story where the billionaire haunts you? I'm doing it with Adal Rifai of Hey Riddle, Riddle and Hello From the Magic Tavern. Which is—
JASPER: Which is speaking of, I was just on Hey Riddle, Riddle this week.
ERIC: You were?
JENNA: What?
JASPER: I guess they got an upcoming episode, so look out for that. It's all crossing over.
JENNA: Awesome.
JASPER: We'll figure it out, but we were in the Multitude multiverse. Like live on the episode was very fun.
ERIC: Let's go. Yeah. Good. I'll plug for— I plug for Multitude in the middle of that. Absolutely. Incredible. So yes, and Adal is incredible, that is so much fun. And also Join the Party is starting our third campaign, which is a pirate story set in the fantasy world of Verda Stello, with plant and bug people, which is been so so much fun to do. Jenna, you should listen to that too. I think it's pretty good.
JENNA: I've been listening to all your like lead-up episodes because I'm really excited about it. I love all the world-building you're doing with your little cabbages with feet.
ERIC: You have?!
JENNA: Yeah.
ERIC: Oh my god. Yeah. Oh my god, I could talk to— talk to you about it all the time. All the vexillology of all the flags.
JENNA: I was also genuinely listening to Tell Me About It on the drive into my office today. So I'm just like deep in the Multitude.
ERIC: Hell yeah dude.
JASPER: Cool.
ERIC: Well thank you so much. I appreciate that. And, you know, keep telling people about Games and Feelings. We love doing the show, we're doing it weekly. We have wonderful guests. Jasper is here as regularly as he is, and we're doing a live show at PAX East. Jenna's gonna be guesting on it. it's gonna be tight as hell.
JENNA: I'll be there!
JASPER: Amazing.
JENNA: Yeah, extremely exciting.
ERIC: So many plugs. You can also check out all this stuff in the episode description in the doobly doo. But Jenna—
JASPER: In the doobly doo.
ERIC: — Jasper, thank you so much for being here. This has been so much fun.
JASPER: Eric, thank you so much for being here.
JENNA: Thank you for having me. It’s been a delight.
ERIC: Thank you. Thanking us three hosts just together.
JASPER: Three hosts, just hanging out hosting.
ERIC: Yeah. And remember an instruction manual doesn't have anything about feelings, except but you have to stay on rhythm, which is hard.
[theme]
ERIC: Games and Feelings produced by Eric Silver and edited and mixed by Mischa Stanton. The theme music is returned to French toast Castle by Jeff Bryce and the art was created by Jessica Boyd. Find transcripts for this episode, and all episodes at our website, gamesandfeelings.com. Until next time, press X to enjoy the podcast.