2 Boys 2 Feelings with Jasper Cartwright
Vibes! Reconnecting! Tears of the Kingdom! It’s Year 2 of G&Feelings and Eric and Jasper are hanging out and doing a soft reset.
Sponsors
- Check out the patreon and support G&F Season 2: patreon.com/gamesandfeelings
Find Us Online
- ask questions: gamesandfeelings.com/questions
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Credits
- Host, Producer, & Question Keeper: Eric Silver
- Permanent Guest: Jasper Cartwright
- Editor & Mixer: Mischa Stanton
- Music by: Jeff Brice
- Art by: Jessica Boyd
- Multitude: multitude.productions
About Us
Games and Feelings is an advice podcast about being human and loving all types of games: video games, tabletop games, party games, laser tag, escape rooms, game streams, and anything else that we play for fun. Join Question Keeper Eric Silver and a revolving cast of guests as they answer your questions at the intersection of fun and humanity, since, you know, you gotta play games with other people. Whether you need a game recommendation, need to sort out a dispute at the table, or decide whether an activity is good for a date, we’re your instruction manual. New episodes drop every other Friday.
Transcript
ERIC: I'm gonna make a big clap here so that Mischa can know that we're— this is where it actually starts.
JASPER: Anything before that, Mischa, and I will hunt you down. Anything.
[theme song plays]
ERIC: Hello, gamers! Welcome to Games and Feelings, an advice show about playing games, being human, and dealing with the fact that those games will involve other humans. Season 2, because we're one year in, so I guess the season is yearly?
JASPER: Oh, okay.
ERIC: It's an annual thing? I don't know.
JASPER: I didn't know this. This is a— this is a fantastic turn of events. Season 2.
ERIC: I— maybe we can level up, I guess.
JASPER: I made the top, baby. We got recommissioned. Let's go!
ERIC: Yeah, the executives over at Games and Feelings headquarters said, “Season Two, we're doing it.” I'm your host and question keeper, Eric Silver. And in my arcade sports video game, my game-breaking move would be dunking the ball, then breaking the rim of— oh, it's basketball. Uh, it's arcade—it's arcade basketball. Uh, so I dunk the ball, I break the rim off of the backboard, and wear it like a crown. And then I take out my phone and FaceTime your mom from my phone and I get a screenshot of all three of us.
JASPER: Wow. That's—
ERIC: So, Jasper, what is your—
JASPER: That's a good one.
ERIC: First of all, what's the arcade sport? What sport are you doing and then what is your game-breaking move when your special meter goes all the way up?
JASPER: Okay. I'm gonna go deliciously on brand and I'm gonna go with football. And the reason that—
ERIC: Oh, of course.
JASPER: —I'm saying football is because one of my favorite games when I was younger was this game called FIFA Street. Uh—
ERIC: I was— this is inspired by the Street franchise. I was thinking NBA Street and NFL Street, so we're on the same page.
JASPER: There we go. There we go.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: So, uh, FIFA Street and you did the dopest moves, and you got to charge up your little game-breaker and y—you did a thing where you did some flips. So I think mine would be, uh— uh, an homage, if you will, to one of my favorite, uh, TV shows as a kid, which is called Galactik Football, which is where it would be a penalty. And what I would do is I would kick the ball so hard, like directly up, and everyone would start laughing at me, being like, “Oh my God, he's messed it up. He's missed. What's happening?” And then suddenly, the sun would, like, be eclipsed by the—
ERIC: Sure.
JASPER: —ball that I kicked—
ERIC: Sure.
JASPER: —into the air. And then the ball would come back down spinning at such a ferocity that it comes back down, bounces just on the line and phew! into the net.
ERIC: I love that.
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: I love the idea that it's like I did such a good kick that it had so much spin gathered by gravity, that it would just fall directly down—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: —that then it would just speed into the net. That’s perfect.
JASPER: Then it would speed into the net. Yeah, yeah. The wild thing is I've actually seen a penalty that ha— was pretty close to that. He basically—
ERIC: Oh.
JASPER: —kicked it off the crossbar—
ERIC: Ooh.
JASPER: — the keeper ran away, celebrating. And then it bounced— because it was spinning, it bounced, like, down in front of the goal and then just trickled over the line.
ERIC: That's tight.
JASPER: And the other team was like, “Ahh!" Like— but they were, like, already celebrating thinking they'd won.
ERIC: There's something about football - soccer—
JASPER: Mmm.
ERIC: —that is so devastating, that—
JASPER: Truly.
ERIC: —because I think it comes down on the goalie, like there's a designated person who looks the dumbest—
JASPER: Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
ERIC: —because of the goalie. Because this doesn't happen in hockey, which is the only of the American Big Four that has, like, a goalie.
JASPER: A goalie, yeah.
ERIC: Because hockey is so just like vibes, everyone's hitting each other.
JASPER: Oh!
ERIC: You can pick a puck up with your stick and do weird magic with it.
JASPER: Mm-hmm.
ERIC: But— so the goalie is just like, 'I'm going to try not to die when you throw a rubber puck at me a 100 miles per hour.'
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: With soccer, the goalie is truly there to look forlorn when you get scored on.
JASPER: Yeah. And to like, punch the ground or— you know what I mean? Do the— do the classic goalie move where the shot’s so good, they just don't move, and they just watch—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —it fly into their own net like a sad puppy dog. It's awful.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: Um, a little Games and Feelings update, though, from me. Uh, I'm now hugely into ice hockey. It is great.
ERIC: Yes. You did say this.
JASPER: It is so great. This is the most unhinged ga—it genuinely feels like the English and the Americans got together and made a game, and took all the most crazy bits of the games that they liked, and—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —put it into one sport where you're allowed to punch each other. It's crazy. The— it— I was watching it and they were like, 'Oh, when the gloves come off, that means they can fight each other.' And I was like, 'What? What?'
ERIC: Yeah, and then everyone just backs up. Yeah.
JASPER: Everyone just lets them do it, like it— it's like— and they take these, like, pugilist stances. It's like, 'What is happening? I love this.'
ERIC: My favorite thing, I think, about hockey fights— uh, because we're gonna get some context around this in a moment.
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: But my favorite thing about hockey fights is— so there's the— the boxing, but the main move is to jersey someone, which is to grab the bottom of their jersey, pull it up over their head, so it's inside out, and then you can beat them, and they can't see where they're going. Like, that's mandatory. That's the move, that's not dirty.
JASPER: That's the move.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: That's the move.
ERIC: So, well, here's the context is that now we're in Season 2, we've passed the anniversary episode.
JASPER: Mm-hmm.
ERIC: Jasper has been in the United States for three weeks and has any—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: A lot of the stuff that we talked about with Caldwell Tanner on a previous episode has— some of it has come to pass—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: —where they brought you to hockey, we— I don't know if it's major league or minor league, and you're enjoying hockey now.
JASPER: Look, let's— like, all I'm gonna say is I'm a little devil. I'm a New Jersey Devil, baby. Let's go. Hughes crew up in here. We've got the two Hughes brothers. They are doing outrageous th— they did outrageous stuff. Look, we got a little unfortunate in the— uh, in the playoffs this year, but we're gonna come back, okay? We're gonna come back next year. We got a young, exciting team and I love it. I'm in, Eric. I'm in.
ERIC: So, did you— you saw an LA Kings game, I guess?
JASPER: No, no, no. We— uh, they got knocked out the week before I got to LA. Uh, they got knocked out—
ERIC: Oh, sure.
JASPER: —of the playoffs like the week before I got to LA. So that was the plan, uh, was to go to a Kings game, uh, but yeah uh—
ERIC: Because I hear— I hear from, uh, LA people who are not big sports people other than loving the LA Lakers.
JASPER: Mmm.
ERIC: Um, like they love the Kings, so I'm—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: —just— that's what I assumed. So, what, you just wa— started watching hockey when you were in the United States, on TV?
JASPER: Yup. Uh, I was watching, uh, hockey with Brian Murphy, who's a— who's a big Devils fan and—
ERIC: Brian— I was wondering how you got the New Jersey in there—
JASPER: Yeah, yeah.
ERIC: —local New Jersey resident living in Los Angeles, Brian Murphy.
JASPER: The only person.
ERIC: Jesus Christ.
JASPER: The only guy— the only guy.
ERIC: It’s him, Bon Jovi, and Bruce Springsteen were all like, 'Jasper, do you want to watch hockey?'
JASPER: ‘Do you wanna—’ that was the— it was me, Brian Murphy, uh, Bon Jovi, and Bruce Springsteen. It was all four of us just sat around and watching it. Uh, yeah, a pretty heartbreaking end to the series, but, you know, the boys did us proud. And do you know what's wild, Eric, is the fact that I truly didn't have a clue about ice hockey three weeks ago?
ERIC: No.
JASPER: And now I care so deeply to the point where I was actively— my day was actively ruined by the New Jersey Devils getting knocked out of the playoffs the other day.
ERIC: Oh, no. Um—
JASPER: I am a ridiculous human and I completely appreciate any flack that anyone wants to give to me.
ERIC: No, that's incredible and I love it. Hockey is something— because it's just like—
JASPER: It's so vibes, man.
ERIC: It's just vibes.
JASPER: It's so vibes.
ERIC: There's so many— there's a lot of rules, like, about icing—
JASPER: Yeah, icing. Yeah.
ERIC: —and blue lines, and offsides, and stuff.
JASPER: Mm-hmm.
ERIC: I still don't understand offsides in— in soccer, and I've seen it so much. It's still very confusing to me, but— uh, because I like sports where you intentionally run by other people to score—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: —instead of, like, being held back.
JASPER: That's— that's what happens with football. You just need to do it with the ball at your feet.
ERIC: I don't— shut up. I don't know— I don't get it. I don't understand. But hockey is all vibes. The thing you said about Americans and—and British coming together, I'm like, 'Yeah, that's called a New England in Canada.'
JASPER: Canada. Yeah.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: I literally thought that a second. I said— I was like, 'Oh, yeah, that's Canada.'
ERIC: I think about this a lot when I— whenever I go to Boston, I'm like, 'Your— everyone's ancestors here? They used to be British and now they’re here.'
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: I think that every time I go there. Um, so, yeah, no, you're 100% correct about hockey.
JASPER: Yeah, absolute vibes. Uh, but what— what a sport. What a crazy sport. Uh—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: What— what a crazy sport, but also doesn't seem to be that popular, yet everyone is——
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —paid just the most extortionate amount of money and I'm like, 'How does— the math— there’s some maths here that is not adding up. I don't know what's going on.'
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: Everyone's paid so much money.
ERIC: I can't compare anything to, like, NBA or NFL because I know that the salary cap is going way up and how much people are getting paid - for good reason, because they're— you know, sports players are workers, they have a union. I— I—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: I— I support all that. Um, I'm trying to think specific— I don't know enough about hockey to tell you specifically, but I think that the people who love hockey love it so much that it props up the entire fact that it’s a regional sport.
JASPER: That— that is probably true. Murph, on finding out the New Jersey Devils got into the next round of the playoffs, uh—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —did buy one of his cats a little, uh, like, bandana, like a little New Jersey bandana, so, like— yes, uh, I— I would concur the one ice hockey fan, uh, like hardcore ice hockey fan that I know does indeed seem to be, uh, very in and all in.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: And to be honest, I love the jerseys, like they look so cool.
ERIC: Oh, they're great.
JASPER: Like, I genuinely think I would love to start a little collection of ice hockey jerseys, because it also needs to be super comfy. Like a nice oversized shirt when it's a little chilly in the winter in—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —in England, oh, yes, please.
ERIC: I like that. There's a— there's a running theme of— and I— I blame Kevin Smith for this, but, uh, bigger dudes wearing hockey jerseys—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: —is a real trope.
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: So, like, I would love that, but I can't. Like it's— they're— it's like, 'Oh, you expect that?'
JASPER: And you think—
ERIC: Because yes, I will be sweating in five minutes—
JASPER: It's too easy.
ERIC: —because I didn't layer properly enough and this is too hot. Yes, you're absolutely right.
JASPER: And this is a thick— a thick big tent for me to just be sweaty under, like—
ERIC: Yeah. And it's also like one of those pop culture hockey jerseys, so, like, the Joker is on it.
JASPER: Oh, oh no.
ERIC: It's a purple and green hockey jersey with the—
JASPER: No.
ERIC: —Joker's face on it.
JASPER: This— this— this has been, uh, something that's come up a lot recently, which is seeing people with, like, the Joker, like, stickers on, like, their cars and stuff. And it's like— it's such an intense feeling of just like, 'Oh, you guys missed the point. Like, you really just, uh— okay.'
ERIC: And is this you being in the United States and seeing this or is this in general?
JASPER: This is both. This is both.
ERIC: Okay, great.
JASPER: It's like—
ERIC: Because I was like, it would be so funny if the UK were like, 'I don't care for that chap.’ and the United States is just into Joker.
JASPER: Yes. [In posh accent] ‘I— I— I feel indifferent about that, uh, strange, uh, man with the— with the green hair. No.’
ERIC: Uh—
JASPER: Uh, yeah, no. Uh, it's just a— it's a very— it's a very different— like, hey, look, if you're like a 15-year-old and you love DC, go for it. Absolutely fine.
ERIC: Sure.
JASPER: If you're 45 years old, and you have a Joker bumper sticker because you think he's an anarchist, and he has some cool ideas, we need to have a chat.
ERIC: Yeah. No, that's very fair.
[laughter]
ERIC: [In British accent] 'Uh, no— uh, we have, uh, King Charles here and King Charles as his first decree saying, uh, 'No Jokers.'
JASPER: No Jokers.
ERIC: [In British accent] 'The clown prince of Gotham is not allowed in here, in the— the United Kingdom.'
JASPER: 'We don't care for his, uh, particular brand of, uh, politics. He actually said he didn't like the monarchy at one point. So he's dead and I want to see no pictures of him anywhere. Thank you.'
ERIC: [In British accent] 'He told— he— he, uh, sent us a, uh, a package and inside was— uh, inside was a bomb.'
JASPER: ‘An— Anthrax.’
ERIC: [In British accent] 'And then it exploded, but it went bang and said, ''Brexit this.'' And I didn't really understand that bit.'
JASPER: [laughs] Brexit this!
ERIC: ‘Yeah, it just - I didn’t really understand it.’
JASPER: Yeah. Just— just like a big penis came out and it said, 'Brexit this.'
ERIC: And we're like, 'Thanks— Thank you.'
JASPER: I can't tell you the legions, and I mean legions - including myself - of people—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —who would dress up like the Joker and take to the streets, if that happened. Like that— that I could deal— uh, that I could deal with. That is hilarious. That is both hilarious and the right level of anarchy. So saying, 'Brexit this,' absolutely perfect. Genius.
ERIC: They shouldn't be so worried about Princess Diana and— and her family and Meghan Markel. They need to be worried about the Joker.
JASPER: They're too worried about the Joker. And the thing is— what I'm saying is no one's seen Harry and Batman in the same place.
ERIC: That's true. That's very true.
JASPER: And turns out Harry has left the family just so that he could be their dark knight, their sworn protector, this whole time. What a beautiful story.
ERIC: [In Joker voice] 'Do you want to know how I got these scars?' [In posh British accent] 'No. No, I don't. No. No.'
JASPER: 'No. No, I don't.' Bop - punch him in the mouth.
ERIC: [In British accent] ‘This is in— this is inappropriate dinner conversation.' Like, 'Sorry, we already have a clown prince of crime. He lives in Wexenshire.’
[laughter]
ERIC: Well, if you haven't noticed, this is a— this is going to be more of a vibes-y episode where, uh—
JASPER: Vibes.
ERIC: —I do have an advice question planned, but we don't necessarily have to do it, because— but I just want to catch up with Jasper—
JASPER: Mmm.
ERIC: —because Jasper has been out, uh, living hi— living his life not recording podcasts—
JASPER: Nah.
ERIC: —for the last few weeks. Uh, and I just wanted to catch up with you and hear how everything's been going, man.
JASPER: It's been so wild. Like, uh, I went to, uh, an event in Salt Lake City, so I went there for the first time ever, seeing a little bit more of, uh, of ‘Merica. Uh, Salt Lake is, uh— uh, a— like the strangest geographic place in— I've ever been.
ERIC: Mm-hmm.
JASPER: I can 100% understand how someone rocked up there a while ago and went ‘this is some divine shit right here.’ Because—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —it's like this flat land, and you kind of stand there, and you look around for, like, basically 360. You do a 360 and there are these genuine, like, godlike mountains right there. Like, it's—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: And like all around you, it's so intense. And you're super high up as well, so, like—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —I got, like, a weird, like, altitude cold thing, which I didn't realize was a thing. Uh, just because I was too high in the air, but I— but— but there was mountains, but I—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —was hot. It was— so that— it was just an intense experience.
ERIC: It's like who thought to build Salt Lake City there, you know?
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: It's just— but it's just— and then there’s these salt flats that look like they’re, like, from the time before, you know what I mean? If a T. rex was—
ERIC: Mm-hmm.
JASPER: —running across one of them, I'd be like, 'Yup, cool. Um, like, fine.' So, yeah, just a crazy place. Uh, I had a very, uh, fun time there. Got to meet, uh, a couple folks from the space who I haven't had a chance to talk to. Uh, yeah. And then— uh, yeah. I've been— I've been over in LA for a couple of weeks, which has been an absolute blast getting to hang out with people, uh, getting to work on some stuff, and— and, uh, just really getting into ice hockey. That's been— that's been the thing. And just honestly, like, trying to unplug a little bit from— from— from things.
ERIC: Oh, sure.
JASPER: Like, I’d had my honeymoon, like, right before this as well.
ERIC: Yes. I haven't— I— it's been very hard and I'm not— this is not dragging you, but this is—
JASPER: Oh.
ERIC: —why I wanted to catch up.
JASPER: No, that's fine. Drag me, drag me. Come on. That's fine.
ERIC: This— I— Jasper, I've literally only been able to, like, talk to you, like, twice over the last—
JASPER: Yup.
ERIC: —like, six weeks. And for good reason too, because—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: —you had your wedding and then your honeymoon. And then— and then you, uh, went on this, uh, United States trip, um, over to the west side of our giant-ass country. Um—
JASPER: It's so giant.
ERIC: —it's so big. It's so lorge. So, uh, that's why I wanted to— that's what just— why I wanted to catch up.
JASPER: Yeah. No, it's— it has been crazy. I feel like I have neglected, uh— uh, most of the responsibilities in my life for the last six weeks, um, which, uh, there's a certain joy that comes with that.
ERIC: Oh, sure.
JASPER: Uh— uh, but, yeah, I— I am definitely excited. I'm flying back early next week, and I'm very excited to be, like— just like back in my own bed, get the— get the old computer fired up—
ERIC: Right.
JASPER: —check my emails properly for the first time in two months. You know what I mean? I feel like there's just a lot of things like that, that I'm looking forward to doing. But I'm excited. I— I'm always, always excited and happy to get to talk to my friend, Eric Silver. So it's—
ERIC: Thanks, bud.
JASPER: It's— it's a nice, little pre-home treat.
ERIC: Uh, thanks, thanks. Uh, what if I was at your house when you came back and like, 'What's up?'
JASPER: ‘What's up?’
ERIC: 'You immediately need to do more social interaction.'
JASPER: That would be— yeah. I'm gonna be honest, it would be a nightmare, but only in the fact that like the— like, if anyone who's not my wife is at my house when I get home, I think I'll cry.
ERIC: Fair.
JASPER: You know what I mean?
ERIC: No, that's fair.
JASPER: Like, that's— all— all I need is just to, like, be with my wife, and turn the lights off, and just be silence. There just be silence for—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —just a little while, because I'm a very— like I'm an extroverted person, but there definitely is a point where I'm like, uh—
ERIC: Yeah, you gotta recharge.
JASPER: —'My batteries are kaput-ska.' They're gone.
ERIC: Really— really quickly on that.
JASPER: Hmm?
ERIC: I feel like the people who came up with the introverted, extroverted stuff—
JASPER: Just don't— yeah.
ERIC: —who— who recharges their battery from social interaction?
JASPER: Nobody.
ERIC: I don't think that that's true.
JASPER: Nobody.
ERIC: Coming from two people who like talking to other people.
JASPER: A lot. You know what I mean?
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: We like talking a lot. Mm-hmm.
ERIC: I like being around other people. I also need to, like, go and lay down for an extended period of time. I don't know if that's what I— I— I feel like, uh, the rule book there was written by, uh, by the introverts there.
JASPER: I will say I think that there is something to like— if I haven't spoken to anyone in a while—
ERIC: Sure.
JASPER: —I definitely feel myself getting like a grumpy little boy, and I feel like I need to go out and just talk to someone, and feel like other humans exist.
ERIC: Oh, 100% agree. 100% agree.
JASPER: So, I feel like there can be a mutual charging, but the idea that you get— like, you can just endlessly talk to people, like new people all day, every day, and not at any point need to recharge is in— crazy—
ERIC: No. No.
JASPER: —absolutely crazy.
ERIC: There's— I wish there was a definition that's not like, 'I like talking to people and I don't.' But the other— there's not a good definition that's like, 'Well, I recharge, um, by being by myself and you recharge like an insane person—’
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: ‘—going to parties and being—’
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: ‘—around others.’
JASPER: Absolutely not.
ERIC: It's like that's not real— that's not real either. I don't think that that's real either.
JASPER: Maybe— but I don't know. There are a lot of people who, like, work a 9:00 to 5:00 and then Friday and Saturday night, they're out, you know, at the club. You know what I mean?
ERIC: At the— at the clurb.
JASPER: The clurb?
ERIC: I guess we're also, uh, recording a podcast, so we're not the same— those types of people who go out to recharge and recharge with other people. Jasper, I want to do a really quick quiz just about—
JASPER: Mm-hmm.
ERIC: —things that you learned about Utah.
JASPER: Yup.
ERIC: Do you know—which of the four major— or I'll include five with your beloved—
JASPER: Uh-huh.
ERIC: —um, not American football. Uh, which professional sports exist—
JASPER: Mm-hmm.
ERIC: —in Salt Lake City?
JASPER: None. It's all horse riding.
ERIC: Incre- [Laughs] The answer is both basketball and soccer. Can you believe that?
JASPER: Wow. Okay, that's genuinely quite a surprise to me.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: Uh, all I saw was horses, truly more horses than people, so that's— I assumed is the only horse— the— the only horse? The only sport that they play.
ERIC: The Utah Jazz, very popular in the— in— or— and very— pretty successful, but, man—
JASPER: I have heard of them. Okay. Good, good.
ERIC: —it's— they're still called the Jazz, aren't they?
JASPER: Yeah, which is - I saw— z—
ERIC: No Jazz?
JASPER: Well, me, Jeremy, and Gabe, we were the only black people there. It's— It's—
ERIC: I told you. I said that— I said that to you—
JASPER: You did say.
ERIC: —now that the—now that the Jazz aren't in the playoffs—
JASPER: Yeah, but, fu—
ERIC: —you are going to be one of the only black people there.
JASPER: Do you know what's crazy, though? Is that— there was a truck went past, uh, us when we were on the road. It was like this big, huge truck, Jamaican, um, like food, like jerk chicken and stuff. And like— and like—
ERIC: Really?
JASPER: And it looked— it looked legitimately Jamaican. It didn't look like—
ERIC: Sure.
JASPER: —white people Jamaican. It looked legitimately Jamaican, but we couldn't see into the truck, because they had blacked-out windows. But we nearly jumped out and ran after it.
ERIC: Driving, that's incredible, honestly.
JASPER: So that's the closest I came to seeing a black person because I think there was a black person driving that truck, but I don't know for sure.
ERIC: That's four— that's four people.
JASPER: Four. Four— four, baby.
[theme song plays]
ERIC: Hey, it's Eric and I picked up some snacks for Games and Feelings. I got guacamole! The secret is putting in a looooot of lime. I even got those tortilla chips you like with a touch of lime, so even more lime we're putting in the guacamole. Please support Games and Feelings, the incredible independent content that we do here and join the Patreon at patreon.com/gamesandfeelings. Just like newest patrons, Maria Poltson and Brae, you are all the best and our patron is strong and mighty. I love doing the show. It's been really fun to reflect on the last year of Games and Feelings. I love going weekly. I love the cadence we have. I love the guests we get. I love doing this with Jasper. I love doing this with Amanda. it's really, really fun. And I also love all the questions all of you are sending in and the idea of actually, like, giving good advice is such a good, good feeling. So thank you to everyone who supports and more— even more of you can join up and support. Shout-out to producer-level patrons Polly Birge, Kelsey Duffy, and Peyton who have PDFs of tabletop RPGs from big companies and aren't afraid to share it with whoever needs it. I'm also the same, so if anyone's like on the Multitude Discord for example, just reach out and I can give you whatever PDFs I have. So, I don't know, just think about it. Think about it. If you like the show, you're gonna love the other shows that are part of the Multitude podcasts collective, just like Join the Party, our actual play Dungeons and Dragons - and more games - show. Join the Party is an actual play podcast with tangible worlds, genre-pushing storytelling, and collaborators who make each other laugh every single week. I think that I'm playing the best Dungeons and Dragons I've ever played in my entire life. I'm also definitively the best DM in podcasting, so I think you're really going to enjoy it and just— I'm just having a really, really good time, especially with Campaign 3, we're currently doing a pirate story set in a world of plant and bug people, uh, return to a fictional world. It has been really, really great. It is actually a weekly podcast. Three out of four of the weeks, we put out fictional episodes - and that fourth week, we do an Afterparty, where we answer your questions about the show and playing tabletop RPGs, which has always been a big tenant of the show. So, what are you waiting for? Pull up a chair and Join the Party! Search for Join the Party in your podcast app or go to jointhepartypod.com. Two short announcements, uh, I rejiggered the content calendar so that Jasper and I could kick it on this particular episode sooner rather than later. I talked about it before but, you know, Jasper was away. So, I recorded a backlog and we're basically—you know, the timeline got all messed up. Uh, so this is the second of two anniversary episodes in a row. We're gonna go back to the regular cadence. Jasper might be missing, but he'll be back ASAP. I'm actually recording an episode with him tomorrow with some guests. It's going to be sick. Also, I wanted to let you know that we are going to do ad-free episodes very shortly. So in order to test whether or not you do or do not want ad-free episodes, I'm inserting Buddy Holly, but if it was Bob-omb Battlefields, right here. So you can decide if you want to keep this and you want to listen to the mid-rolls or if you want to skip the whole thing altogether, this is your test. Make sure to join up at patreon.com/gamesandfeelings. We'll be back to the show after the song.
['Buddy Holly' MIDI plays]
ERIC: Uh, well, Jasper, I do want to ask because this is— since this is the first episode of season two, we went—
JASPER: Mm-hmm.
ERIC: —all the way around the cycle.
JASPER: All the way around the sun.
ERIC: We—in Animal Crossing, we enjoyed the winter version and the spring version, and the summer and the fall version. Now, we're all the way back around. Um, it's just been the, uh, anniversary of Games and Feelings, how do— hey, do you like being on the show? Do you like it?
JASPER: Yeah. This is the best! I get to hang out with you. Uh, we can very, very occasionally answer and give people advice, uh, which is—
ERIC: We—
JASPER: —very funny to me. Um, and, uh, I think it gives us exactly the space that we need to geek out about games and occasionally talk about sports. Uh, and I—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —absolutely love it.
ERIC: Uh, we are definitely going to do that sports episode at some point.
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: Please send the questions. We— and we can also just talk about it generally. We do have a few questions here. Um, but, yeah, I think we'll do a straight sports episode at some point.
JASPER: I need it.
ERIC: Need it.
JASPER: I need this sports episode.
ERIC: Talking about them sports.
JASPER: Talking about them sports.
ERIC: Um, well, I appreciate it. I mean, I wanted to bring you on because also it's an excuse, because when you're in your 30s, you have to, uh, start a podcast to have friends.
JASPER: Yeah. Yeah.
ERIC: Uh, so I'm glad that we get to spend the time together, but also, you're— have been the one who has been bringing on the really fun guests that we've had lately. Um, like Caldwell, and there's some other people that— and Drak, uh, that has been really fun. And hopefully more soon, so I'm really happy about that.
JASPER: Yeah, we got some— we got some— we got some people in the pipeline for sure, which is—
ERIC: Oh, for sure.
JASPER: —very, very exciting. It is much like ice hockey. It's pure vibes, uh, and all the fun. So, I love it. I love it.
ERIC: Fun only. Uh, well, hey, Jasper, do you want to talk about some games that are giving us feelings?
JASPER: Yeah!
ERIC: Uh, listen, I have a lot of Tears of the Kingdom stuff to talk about, which is— which makes this the same—
JASPER: Yeah, I was gonna say, I don't— I think I'm happy to even, uh, forego my go here, because I think that there is only one thing that needs to be talked about. Uh, you— you have— it appears that you have a TOTK sort of tattooed into your forehead and, uh, I can only assume that much like everyone that I've been around for the last 48 hours, the only thing that exists is Tears of the Kingdom. So please, please tell me how you're enjoying this game.
ERIC: I'm fine. If you— I was gonna be like, 'Hey, Jasper—'
JASPER: No.
ERIC: '—what games are you playing to amuse yourself on these long airplane rides?'
JASPER: Absolutely not. Go for it. Tell me about it. Tell me about Tears of the Kingdom.
ERIC: Okay. I want to speak about something very specific, because again, this is coming out the 26th. The— I know that the Tears of the Kingdom, the wave is cresting. People are going to be playing it like— we're past the video game people getting codes and the review things.
JASPER: Mm-hmm.
ERIC: Uh, we're kind of be past, like, the initial, 'Oh, I'm gonna strap Koroks to stuff and torture them.' Which I don't understand. Koroks are my favorite little boys—
JASPER: Mm-hmm.
ERIC: —and I love. So, do you know— do you know the reason why this is happening? So— The Koroks are, like, one of the many things you can, like, discover in Breath of the Wild and now Tears of the Kingdom. They give you like a little poop, a little seed and you can redeem that to make your— your, like, uh, inventory bigger.
JASPER: Mmm.
ERIC: Um, but now, so usually you had to, like, just poke around the world and find them, like you got to lift up a rock, or they're under a bridge, or whatever. Now, there's these things—
JASPER: Hmm.
ERIC: —where one of them has a big backpack and it's like, 'I have overpacked my backpack. I don't know where my friend is.' And the friend is like all the way over there—
JASPER: Mm-hmm.
ERIC: —and you need to use all of your abilities to bring them over to their friend, and then you get—
JASPER: Right.
ERIC: —two seeds. So, I honestly think it's a really interesting remix of what they did before and I like helping out this little guy.
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: But everyone's torturing them and I don't know why!
JASPER: That's messed up. In all of the games that this— you know, that you do this, this doesn't feel like the intention by which the game makers intended for you to use this feature. Uh, that's upsetting.
ERIC: No! Help them! Strap them, and make a little cart, and take your horse, and then ride the cart with your horse over to his friend, and then you drop them off, then you get two seeds. You get two secret things.
JASPER: Two seeds. That's what everyone's missing out on, they just— they— you need to— need to keep your eyes on the prize and get them two seeds, okay?
ERIC: Stop making torture devices for TikTok and help out this little guy.
JASPER: This little guy. I've also seen a flame-throwing penis—
ERIC: Yes.
JASPER: —uh, that has been made.
ERIC: That's a classic.
JASPER: Uh, that seems to be quite a popular one at the moment.
ERIC: Jasper, can I— I would like to say and I'm gonna make a note here, uh, if— if you want to skip Tears of the Kingdom talk, we— I already talked about the Koroks a little bit, but that's not a spoiler about anything. The thing is you can't spoil Tears of the Kingdom. I don't think the—
JASPER: Sure.
ERIC: Like, the story is better than it was in Breath of the Wild, and Breath of the Wild, it was just vibes, right?
JASPER: Sure.
ERIC: Tears of the Kingdom there’s actually a very interesting story and there's some stuff. I'm not going to spoil any of that.
JASPER: Mmm.
ERIC: Some of this stuff — I'm going to talk about one specific element, which has some things that I discovered that I could spoil for people.
JASPER: Oh, right.
ERIC: So if you want to skip this whole part, if you're listening, you can just skip forward. I'll put a timestamp—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: —in the episode description.
JASPER: Do it.
ERIC: But I want to talk about one specific thing, which my single favorite thing about Tears of the kingdom, which are—
JASPER: Hey.
ERIC: —the Depths. Have you heard about the Depths?
JASPER: Oh, the— these are where you dive down, right, into the, uh, into— it's like big chasms.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: And it takes like two whole minutes to, like, dive down through the holes, yeah.
ERIC: Right. So, yeah, so like there's the sky, and there's the regular land, and then there's the Depths, where you jump in through these gloom holes. And—
JASPER: Mmm.
ERIC: —when you jump through, you come down there and everything's totally dark. And I'm like, 'This is the tightest shit I've ever seen in my entire life.’ It is so cool! What I love about the game in general, but specifically the Depths, is that the tone of Tears of the Kingdom is both goofier and scarier and spookier than Breath of the Wild.
JASPER: Yeah. I think they— I think they come in hand in hand, goofy and spooky, people don't— like they definitely come hand in hand. You got to be a little campy—
ERIC: Yes.
JASPER: —to pull off a good horror movie. You know what I mean?
ERIC: Exactly. Yeah.
JASPER: So I'm with you. Okay, carry on.
ERIC: So I— I love it. The main thing that you have to do is that it's dark as hell, so you have to throw these things called brightroot seeds everywhere, which is a thing—
JASPER: Hmm.
ERIC: —you can find in caves. Also, there's a whole caves and wells mechanic that's on— up there, which is also tight as hell. I love going underground in this game.
JASPER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just love being a little— little Diglett. A little Diglett boy.
ERIC: A little guy.
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: So you throw the seeds and the seeds light up, and then it only lights up like a very small area. So you got to keep doing that as you look around, and then you start fighting things every— the— all the enemies are surrounded in gloom, which makes them harder. It's just so interesting down there. And this light root throwing mechanic is so essential to the new thing they're doing in Tears of the Kingdom, which—
JASPER: Hmm.
ERIC: —is throwing items and attaching items to arrows, which is like—
JASPER: Ooh.
ERIC: So they're reinforcing the mechanics in a specific area that needs this mechanic, which is why I love it so much.
JASPER: Hmm. I think that that's been my general feeling with the Zelda games. I haven't— uh, you know, I won't, uh, protest to have, uh, played a— a— a ton of Zelda games before.
ERIC: Sure.
JASPER: But I think always the— the joy and the fun for me has been like how perfectly they pull off the simplest of mechanics and the—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —simplest of ideas. You know, how there's no need for— I mean, Link hasn't said a damn thing in how— what, like 30-odd years? You know what I mean—
ERIC: Right. He just goes ‘guh-ahh!’ [imitates more gasping noises]
JASPER: —that they’ve been making these games like— uh, so like— uh— uh, I'm like— I think that there's something so quintessentially, like, kind of beautiful and— uh, in the— in the simplicity of the games and how— honestly, focusing more on vibes, focusing—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —more on the— the— uh, the internal, uh, emotional journey that you go on as a player as opposed to just like, 'We're going to do the coolest thing and make it the coolest thing.' Because I think quite often you can get into— like my— one of my pet peeves with video games is when you get to a new area and the game is like, 'Okay, we have a new mechanic for you.' And I'm like, 'But why can't I just do the thing that I've been doing and perfecting, and putting all my points into and—'
ERIC: Yes.
JASPER: Do you know what I mean? Like, why am I suddenly now having to just do an entirely new thing? Which I'll note— won't be able to do in any other area. You know what I mean?
ERIC: Yes. For Tears of the Kingdom specifically—
JASPER: Mmm.
ERIC: —it's funny that they did that without a skill tree. They did it by letting you do the type of play that you're good at. By like—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: What I did is like I've made my kind of, like, loadout of how I deal with combat and that's— instead of like, 'Oh, I'm putting all'—like Skyrim, 'Oh, I put all my points in archery,' which I do anyway. It's like, 'Oh, I'm going to throw this thing and I'm going to make sure I've used good weapons.' So it comes out—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: —through play, instead of skill trees.
JASPER: Yeah. Which I think— again, I think there's— there's definitely merits to both, uh, of those things, but I just— I think that there's something so— that generally— like Nintendo does very well with its—
ERIC: Mm-hmm.
JASPER: —platforms. Is just understanding the platform and why people are there and what people want out of it. And, actually, I think it's probably something that PlayStation has done a little bit better, because—
ERIC: Yes.
JASPER: —I think that a lot of people that have a PlayStation 5 want these just ridiculously gorgeous-looking linear-ass games where you feel like you're in a movie. Do you know what I mean? I do—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —think that there's something to understanding why people are specifically playing this console and what they— what they— what is the experience that they want, and I think that— literally, I've been milling around and talking to people in LA, and everyone is saying how good this game is and losing their damn minds about it—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —to the point where I was like, 'Hey, we should— uh, how's— what are we doing for lunch?' And, uh, it was just like, 'Oh, yeah, sorry, no. Tears of the Kingdom.’ Um—
ERIC: Are you allowed to play? Are you— or do you just have to watch?
JASPER: Well, I don't have my Switch with me, which was—
ERIC: Oh.
JASPER: —slightly— slightly intentional, because I was like—
ERIC: Sure, sure, sure.
JASPER: I was like, 'I know if I have my Switch with me, that's all I'm gonna do.'
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: Um, and, like, I— I didn't fly halfway across the world to sit and play—
ERIC: Play Tears of the Kingdom.
JASPER: To play Tears of the Kingdom. Like, I can definitely go home now, have a bit of a break, and just, like, enjoy the hell out of it. Do you know what I mean?
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: So, like, that's my plan. Um, but, yeah, everyone around me is playing it to the point where—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —to the point where the people I'm staying with had to buy a second Switch.
ERIC: Wow. That's crazy.
JASPER: Because they— because they were like, 'Well, I want to play. Well, I want to play.'
ERIC: That's wild— that's like a Nintendo commercial.
JASPER: And I— and you know what? I have nothing but respect for these people.
ERIC: No, I respect that.
JASPER: Nothing but respect.
ERIC: One of the first questions we ever did on Games and Feelings was, ‘should I have two TVs, so me and my wife can play at the same time?’
JASPER: Correct.
ERIC: And we said yes.
JASPER: Yeah, correct.
ERIC: We said yes, so honestly—
JASPER: A thousand percent.
ERIC: —Games and— Games and feelings approved.
JASPER: Yeah. Games and Feelings approved. Absolutely correct.
ERIC: Uh, Jasper, can I tell you some tight shit that happens in the Depths?
JASPER: Yes, please.
ERIC: Okay. So I have some specific stuff. One, the coolest monsters are down there. For example, there's a boss you can only see down there which is called the Obsidian Frox. It's like a giant, uh, toad that lives underground and it also has, like, rocks coming out of its back that you need to hit. It's kind of its weak points. And it can swallow you up and it has a big eye in the middle of its face. And it's really, really cool.
JASPER: Whoa.
ERIC: And it’s scary and the thing—
JASPER: That's an amazing name as well.
ERIC: The thing that comes up below it is— it's the Obsidian Frox, Scourge of The Depths.
JASPER: Sick.
ERIC: Sick as hell. Um—
JASPER: Sick. So tight.
ERIC: Uh, Jasper, all of the cool, um, uh, like fruit that you can harvest are down there in the Depths. For example, the bomb fruit, uh—
JASPER: Okay.
ERIC: —uh, the puffshroom, which when you throw it, a cloud of— of spores goes out, so you can go around and just sneak attack people. You just go up behind—
JASPER: Nice. Love that.
ERIC: —them and sneak attack them. And the muddle bud, which finally Zelda has been introducing the ability to make someone go crazy and attack their friends. So— so the best stuff is in— the most combat-specific stuff that's not like elemental—
JASPER: It's in the Depths.
ERIC: —is in the Depths. So you— so me spending my time down there, I'm like fucking kitted out.
JASPER: Yeah. Oh, and again, it's rewarding the way that you want to play because—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —for all those little scaredy boys and girls out there, probably, you know, not enjoying being down in the Depths.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: And I get that. You know what I mean? Like, I completely understand that - that's not probably the way I won't— I'm already feeling— I'd just be up in the sky and I'd be like, 'Ooh, yeah, me floating around on the clouds and doing cool Zelda stuff up here.' And it's— and I bet you, it's a whimsical, lovely time up there. Um—
ERIC: But I'm just down in the Depths, a little goblin.
JASPER: And you're just down in the Depths like a little— little gremlin.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: Like a little gremlin just collecting your bomb fruits.
ERIC: Yeah. Uh, there's also a ton of mining down there which is a whole thing about, like, making sure you have enough, like, hammers so you attach, like, a stick to a boulder or something. So, there's a whole, like, mining mechanic that's happening there at the same time. Uh, but I want to talk about vehicles really quickly. Uh—
JASPER: Oh, yeah. This has been— I've seen some vehicles.
ERIC: So, the vehicles are obviously everywhere, right? And that's a major component of what we're doing here, is building the vehicle, making the— the dick robot—
JASPER: Dick robot.
ERIC: — that shoots— that shoots flames. They have, um, little areas in the Depths where there's like, 'Oh, here's a bunch of stuff, like build something and you can navigate.' So it's really helpful to make, like, a glider while you're flying through the darkness and you can—
JASPER: Mmm.
ERIC: —like throw light bombs everywhere, trying to open stuff up. But— and this is kind of a spoiler here. So if you really want to skip forward, this is something that I discovered. And because I've put, like, I guess 30-40 hours into this by now, probably more—
JASPER: Mm-hmm.
ERIC: —by the time that you're listening to this. Um, Jasper, my favorite enemies in— in Zelda are down there.
JASPER: Mmm.
ERIC: It's the Yiga Clan, who are the goofiest motherfuckers who— who keep— who, they teleport. They're ninjas, and they're idiots, and doofuses, and they keep falling over themselves, including their master, Master Kohga, who is always like, 'Ooh, everything's bad. Link—’ he has so much bravado. He's like, uh, a wrestler. It's honestly incredible. So the thing about— also, the Yiga Clan is that they teleport, one, but, two, they're obsessed with bananas.
JASPER: Oh, yeah.
ERIC: So they always have bananas on them, which is always super funny. Um, which— the funny thing is, when you cook bananas up, they turn into, um, uh, a better attack power, like potions.
JASPER: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
ERIC: But it's more funny seeing— seeing an enemy drop a bunch of bananas.
JASPER: That sounds absolutely amazing. I love some little goofy boys. That's so funny.
ERIC: And it makes sense because they were in the previous game and you defeated them. And then he— the last thing that happened in Breath of the Wild is Master Kohga fell down a big pit. So now he's in the Depths, which totally makes sense.
JASPER: Oh, my God. Incredible.
ERIC: And that's why they're, like, booping around down there. But the— the thing about the vehicles is that now as— to— there's a— there's a quest that seems to tie into the main line, which is honestly wild. Uh, there's a lot of side quests that are, like, uh, that tie into the main story. So—
JASPER: Oh.
ERIC: —Master Kohga is down there and you have to fight him a bunch of times, because the—the Yiga Clan has taken over some abandoned mines that are in the Depths. Um, you end up fighting the Yiga Clan and Master Kohga while on— while he's using vehicles. He—
JASPER: Whoa.
ERIC: —can build vehicles. So he's driving around in a little cart. He's driving around in a little boat. He's driving around in a little plane. And you as Link are having a fucking air-to-air or— what— I— I did a sea battle. I was on a boat—
JASPER: That's so sick.
ERIC: —and he was on a boat, and I was shooting him with my bow.
JASPER: That's so sick.
ERIC: And that's in the game. That's part of the main story, Jasper!
JASPER: Wow. Wow.
ERIC: In a Zelda game, a boat-to-boat action.
JASPER: Boat-to-boat action, baby. Boaty McBoatface versus his brother.
ERIC: It's—
JASPER: Wow.
ERIC: It's honestly— like I was so surprised that it actually happened in a Zelda game. Um, and the Yiga Clan, it's just been so much fun. Also, there's a ton of secrets down there. If you find stuff in the sky, you can find an old, like, scroll and then it'll put an X, like a treasure map X on the map in the Depths. And you're—
JASPER: Mm-hmm.
ERIC: —like, 'Ho, ho, ho, what's down there?' But the thing is, it's dark and there are tons of walls everywhere. Like, you can't past this area so you gotta go around—
JASPER: Yeah, sure.
ERIC: —or you got to find a secret passageway. So it's like, 'Oh, well, I'm gonna drop whatever I'm fucking doing and go immediately back into the Depths—'
JASPER: And go immediately— yeah, yeah, yeah. Obviously.
ERIC: '—and figure out where the X is.' So, uh—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: —the Depths, I think, are now in my top three, if not top two, settings of video games.
JASPER: Wow. Okay.
ERIC: And not even the whole thing, not even the whole thing. It's like the Depths and, like, the— the— the oldest house from Control, which was like a government facility that's alive at the same time, which is tight—
JASPER: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
ERIC: —as hell. Control is also one of my favorite games of all time. Um—
JASPER: Control is a lot of fun. I didn't actually manage to play, uh, enough of Control, but, yeah, I've—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —I've been meaning to dip back into it, so maybe I should.
ERIC: You— you totally should. I— it's kind of— it's more of a shooter than you think it is, which is, um, kind of like meh on, but, like—
JASPER: True.
ERIC: —the vibes and the setting of it are so good. They're like— anyway, the point is the Depths are so interesting. It's my favorite part of this game. Um, and whenever I get bored, I can just go do something else and then I can come back when I get frustrated when I don't want to do the darkness stuff anymore.
JASPER: So good. Yeah, I mean, that sounds like absolute— that— that— that alone has given me a reason to want to play it.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: Like, uh, top two favorite video game settings? That is wild, coming from Eric Silver.
ERIC: I— I can't think of another one. Like maybe I'll come up with— well, maybe I'll come up with something later. But, like, I've never been gripped by a setting so much, yeah.
JASPER: But still to have something so evocative that it's— it's, you know, down to, like, the simple mechanical, uh, requirements—
ERIC: Yes.
JASPER: —for, like, existing in that place, I think is, uh, very, very entertaining and— and like— uh, and kind of rare, honestly, because I think a lot of games can fall into a thing of like, 'Oh, this just feels like kind of a— a copy and paste, uh, version of a previous area, but with light.
ERIC: Right.
JASPER: Or without light, or in the sky, or whatever. But the logs are all in the same place and the— you know what I mean? And the—
ERIC: Yeah. Even— I mean, I'm— no shade at Elden Ring because the reveal knowing that there was a bottom half, a second—
JASPER: Mmm.
ERIC: —land in, uh, Elden Ring below. But it wasn't different from the stuff above. It was just more—
JASPER: Right.
ERIC: —of the same.
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: This is literally like— this is totally different, the form, everything that you've been doing, these specific mechanics are going to be incredibly important. One, making sure you're using the— using the materials and two, making sure that you have something that can break rocks are all incredibly important. And, yeah, that's the—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: You know how much I love form following function in my games.
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: And like that's the—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: —that's what it is and that's why I love it so much.
JASPER: It gives a little ecosystem and a little feel of, like, a living breathing kind of secondary world down there. I think it's very, very cool. Very, very cool.
ERIC: Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, people— you can skip, people. You can now come back.
JASPER: Come back.
ERIC: Come back.
JASPER: Come back, baby.
ERIC: Jasper, since it's just vibes, I did want to get you a present for season two.
JASPER: Whoa. Okay.
ERIC: For season two of Games and Feelings, the second year, year two, 2 Jasper 2 Games and Feelings, 2 Games, 2 Feelings.
JASPER: Two Boys, Two Feelings. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
ERIC: Two Boys, two— that's the name of the— that's the episode title, Two Boys,
Two Feelings with Jasper Cartwright.
JASPER: Two boys, two feelings.
ERIC: Um, Jasper, would you like to play a little game?
[musical chime]
JASPER: I love the games!
ERIC: Jasper, did you miss— I know you were, like, getting married and, like, on your honeymoon with your beloved, but, like, did you miss my games?
JASPER: Yeah, I missed your games. I missed your games and how infuriating they are because it will almost certainly be— that the answer is exactly the same on all, but one of them or all of them, or none of them, and so I can't wait to see how you're going to try and shenanigan me into zero points today.
ERIC: [laughs] That's true. I'm glad you've been noticing. I wanted to see—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: —if you noticed.
JASPER: Oh, immediately.
ERIC: Jasper, this game is called, ‘Jasper, I Would Never Lie To You, Except in a Game that We're Playing Right Now: Board Game Edition.’
JASPER: Oh, okay. Okay. Let's go.
ERIC: Uh, I'm gonna read you the title of a board game. You need to—
JASPER: Mm-hmm.
ERIC: —tell me if it's real or fake. What— the real ones come directly from BoardGameGeek, the depos— which ranks the best board games of all time.
JASPER: Uh-huh.
ERIC: And the fake ones come from the board game name generator, uh, which is my favorite thing that exists. And whoever made it, put a lot of time and effort into it.
JASPER: Is that on Fantasy Name Generator? That website is absolutely—
ERIC: It is. Yeah. I fucking love Fantasy Name Generator.
JASPER: Like, whatever those— whatever you folks are doing over there, it's— it is truly— whatever divine power exists in the world, you're doing their work by—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —creating that website. There has never been a scenario where I've needed a name—
ERIC: Mm-hmm.
JASPER: —for truly anything that I haven't been able to find on that website. It is—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —unbelievable. You guys are incredible.
ERIC: My favorite two, I think, are board game name generator and, uh, horse name generator are the—
JASPER: Yeah, just—
ERIC: —two from there that are my favorites.
JASPER: So good. So, so good. I love that website so much.
ERIC: I also want to give a shout-out because these people obviously know what they're doing. There was an ex— like—you know how there's usually like a few paragraphs explaining how the generator works, what it— what it's about, blah, blah, blah.
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: There's a really specific one for board games, which says this, "Note that it's possible to find a name in this generator that might already belong to an existing game. With thousands of games out there and a hundred more being released every year, it's impossible to keep track of this—” uh, “of this all in order to keep this generator up-to-date. If you're looking for a name on an official game of your own, it's best to at least do a Google search first to check that the name hasn't already been taken." This guy knows. They know. He's a gamer.
JASPER: Oh, I love it. I love it. I love it so much. They know.
ERIC: Okay. So, Jasper, you have to tell me if it's real or if it's fake, and you get extra points if you explain what this game is, uh, while you guess it's real or fake. All right, here we go. The first game is called Trigger Finger. Trigger Finger.
JASPER: Trigger Finger. Trigger Finger is a fake.
ERIC: Okay. And what's the game— what's the game— uh, what's it about?
JASPER: But if it was real, Trigger Finger would be a game where it's— okay. So it's a— it's a long, thin board—
ERIC: Uh-huh.
JASPER: —and you've got two cowboys, uh, on either side of the board. And the aim is to get your cowboy to the middle. And you—
ERIC: Ooh.
JASPER: —basically do like a shoot-out and what you have to do is you have to press the buzzer, like when the little beep goes off, you press the buzzer the quickest. But if you're the second, if you— if you're slow and the other person gets it first, you get, like, a little electric shock.
ERIC: Ooh, I like that. It's dangerous.
JASPER: Trigger— Trigger Finger.
ERIC: Jasper, you get two points. One, because it was fake.
JASPER: Yes.
ERIC: And two, because I like the game.
JASPER: Yeah. Ding, ding, ding. Love it.
ERIC: There is another cowboy one, it's called BANG! and I think it involves like shooting rubber bands when you make, like, a— a finger with your—
JASPER: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
ERIC: Like, finger guns.
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: And I never really understood it as much, and I think that your thing makes more sense. It's more about the reaction time than the shooting.
JASPER: Yes, for sure. Especially when you're— we're talking about rubber bands being, uh, famously inaccurate.
ERIC: Famously.
JASPER: Famously, uh, hard to get them on the bullseye.
ERIC: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. This game is called Flabbergasted.
JASPER: Flabbergasted?
ERIC: Mm-hmm.
JASPER: It— okay. I will be flabbergasted if this isn't real, because I feel like this should 100% be an— a very cute, quaint, little British game, uh, called Flabbergasted. And you play as a— uh, ooh, you play as these little, uh, kind of blob-like creatures, a little Among Us style, and you are in a sort of dystopian world where humans have died, but you— you're in like a little English village and it's like the ruins of a little English village. And you're going around, trying to figure out, uh, like what words mean and stuff like this. Like— it is like a— a mechanic about, like, gaining knowledge about the world. And if you're bad at it, you're flabbergasted, but that's okay, because you're just a cute, little boy trying to figure out what happened in the ruins of this English town.
ERIC: Are— are they fey or you're all just like— you're a real English boy?
JASPER: No, no. These are like little radioactive blobs that have come out of the nuclear waste and form— and have sentience.
ERIC: Oh, okay. I understand. I love how, like, you can get an expansion pack here, maybe where—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: —one of them is like a— oh, uh, what do you call when the— when the fairies take you away and replace you with the— the fey?
JASPER: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you mean. Yeah. I— I have no idea what it’s called, but yeah.
ERIC: Everyone who listens to this show is yelling out what it is.
JASPER: Oh, of course.
ERIC: But you know what— you know what it is. Um—
JASPER: The editor is currently screaming.
ERIC: Yeah, Mischa is yelling— yeah, Mischa is yelling—
JASPER: Mischa is 100% screaming.
ERIC: Jasper, I love that game, so you get one point. However, Flabbergasted, fake.
JASPER: Fake. I'm seeing a pattern here.
ERIC: Fake.
JASPER: I'm seeing a pattern here.
ERIC: All right.
JASPER: Let's see.
ERIC: Jasper, how about the game called Too Many Bones?
JASPER: I mean, Operation already exists, so I kind of feel like that's— that's the only version of this game.
ERIC: It's just Operation.
JASPER: It's just Operation, but you're taking out the extra bones.
ERIC: Yeah. Is it a real game or is it fake?
JASPER: Maybe it's like expansion— okay. I'm gonna say it's an expansion for Operation. Uh, Operation colon—
ERIC: Okay.
JASPER: —Too Many Bones. Nah, it's fake.
ERIC: Too Many Bones is a real—
JASPER: No!
ERIC: —game that came out in 2017.
JASPER: Oh, shit. I need to Google this. What—
ERIC: Here's the summary: “toss gobs of unique dice in an epic adventure on route to a final boss showdown.”
JASPER: What?
ERIC: I know. I did not look any more about— about it.
JASPER: What? Okay. Okay, sound off. Go for it. Too Many Bones. Let's go.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: I'm buying it, we’ll play it. Let's go.
ERIC: It has real, like, Goblincore energy.
JASPER: Okay. So— oh, you're playing as little skellies, is that what it is?
ERIC: That's my understanding.
JASPER: Yeah?
ERIC: I didn't— I didn't really do much research because I wanted just the summary
to speak for itself.
JASPER: Sure. Sure, sure, sure.
ERIC: Uh, hey, Jasper, how about the game Wingspan?
JASPER: Wingspan is real and I've—
ERIC: Yes.
JASPER: —played it. Uh, but— in the version of the game I want it to be is— it is a box filled with a random assortment of possibly interconnectable items like— almost like—
ERIC: Mmm.
JASPER: —K’NEX. Have you ever played— have you ever played with K’NEX, like Lego—
ERIC: Yes.
JASPER: —but for adults with a midlife crisis incoming. And you basically have to connect them all together on a team to make the— you give yourself the biggest wingspan.
ERIC: Oh, that's cool.
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: Is it, like, timed?
JASPER: Yeah, obvious— it's like— yeah, you have two— two teams. One person who— you have to be two teams of two and, yeah, one person is—
ERIC: Mm-hmm.
JASPER: —building on the other person, the other person has to stay really still, so that they don't, uh, break their very fragile, little wings that are made out of—
ERIC: It's a— it's a party game.
JASPER: It's a party game. It's— for sure, it's a party game.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: Yup.
ERIC: Yeah. So Wingspan is a good— uh, Wingspan is a real game. I wanted to include this, because, um, Wingspan is a game about, like, birdwatching—
JASPER: Eggs.
ERIC: —and— and— yes. And can we just talk about the absolute glow-up that birdwatching has gotten over the last few years?
JASPER: Oh, absolutely. I think maybe because we stuck— we were stuck inside for a while. Everyone’s now just like—
ERIC: Sure.
JASPER: —'Ah, go outside and watch the birds, that's not the boring and mundane thing that I used to think it was. Now, I think it's beautiful and— and— and wholesome, and brings me closer to nature.’
ERIC: Mmm.
JASPER: I think people are just like, 'I'll go outside. Yeah, I'd love that.'
ERIC: Most acceptable nerd hobbies, I think one is still Marvel, reading comics is one now.
JASPER: Sure. Uh-huh.
ERIC: But, two, I think overtaking both video games and tabletop RPGs. I think birdwatching is number two.
JASPER: That is the biggest swing that you've ever taken in your life and you are completely incorrect.
[laughter]
ERIC: I don't know. I don't know. Birdwatching.
JASPER: I'm— I'm so sorry—
ERIC: That's okay.
JASPER: —but you're wrong. You're wrong for the reason that most of the people who have kooky little hobbies, who, like, live in cities would have to truly drive for an hour plus to see one bird that's not a fucking pigeon or a seagull.
ERIC: There is urban birdwatching. Jasper, they're gonna come for you, the birds, the birders.
JASPER: Oh, come— what I'm saying is— okay. Look, listen, come for me, teach me where I can find these birds, because I'm— I would be happy to be able to spot something more interesting than a seagull or a pigeon—
ERIC: Fair.
JASPER: —when I'm like walking about my day. So, I— I'm willing to learn, but until you teach me, I disagree.
ERIC: Okay. Um, Jasper, I have a— uh, I have a lightning round for you.
JASPER: Okay.
ERIC: —which is, uh, about French words. There is a— there are both English names on the generator and French names on the generator, because, again, Fantasy Name Generator goes so fucking—
JASPER: So—
ERIC: —hard in the paint.
JASPER: So unreasonably hard, and I love it. Okay, let's go.
ERIC: Okay. So I have one that's called Sans Eaus
JASPER: Sans Eaus. Uh—
ERIC: Sans Eaus. And the other one is called Orléans.
JASPER: Orléans.
ERIC: Orléans or— or it's like Orleans, but with, uh, like— with— with French.
Orléans.
JASPER: Orléans? Okay.
ERIC: So— so which— which one is real and which one is fake? Is Sans Eaus real or is Orlong— Orland— Orléans, is that one real?
JASPER: Uh, Sans Eaus is real and it is a game where you have to throw, uh, Cheerios—
Eric: Mmm.
JASPER: —uh, onto a little pole and, uh, it's infuriating, and bad.
ERIC: Uh, Jasper, unfortunately, Sans Eaus was fake.
JASPER: Nooo!
ERIC: Orléans was real. Here's the— the war— the most wild— which I think— this encapsulates like a whole swath of board games.
JASPER: Okay.
ERIC: “During the medieval goings-on around Orléans in— in medieval France, you must assemble a following of farmers, merchants, knights, and monks to gain a supremacy through trade, construction, and science.”
JASPER: Wow. Okay. Very cool. Yeah.
ERIC: French board games. They go hard.
JASPER: French board games. There we go. Uh-huh.
ERIC: Okay. Uh, Jasper, I'm gonna give you— uh, I'm gonna give you the title and the summary—
JASPER: Uh-huh.
ERIC: —because I want you to succeed and you have to tell me if it's real or fake.
JASPER: Okay.
ERIC: Uh, Jasper, this one is called Twilight Struggle. “Relive the Cold War and rewrite history in an epic clash between the United States and the USSR.”
JASPER: That's 100% real and it shouldn't be.
ERIC: It's 100% real. Yeah.
JASPER: Yeah? Okay. Good.
ERIC: There's something about board games, like half— like if you split the board game fandom down the middle—
JASPER: Mm-hmm.
ERIC: —one half wants to just play party games and maybe it gets a little crunchy, but—
JASPER: And whimsy. They want whimsy.
ERIC: And whimsy. And— and the other half of the board game fandom wants to relive history so specifically, but they can't get in a time machine so they use meeples instead.
JASPER: Yeah, crazy. Wild. I mean, I want to open that up just to see what the hell the mechanics are like. What are we doing here?
ERIC: Can you believe it's so crunchy, Jasper? It's so crunchy.
JASPER: It will be unbelievably crunchy and the whole aim is to not do the thing.
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: So I don't—
ERIC: Like, stop it.
JASPER: Just stop that from happening, so— okay. Yeah. Sure. Let's do it.
ERIC: This was a little bit of a bait for you as well, um, because the word twilight also is a really big trigger word in board games. Like—
JASPER: Sure.
ERIC: —if the word twilight is in a game, you know that this game is going to take eight hours.
JASPER: Yeah. Oh, 100%. And it's going to be so complicated that you're gonna get to your fifth time playing it and you're gonna go, 'Oh, shit, we've been doing that wrong this whole time. We've been doing it wrong the whole —'
ERIC: ‘We've been doing it wrong the whole time. That's why we keep losing.’ Yeah.
JASPER: Yeah, yeah.
ERIC: ‘That's why the USSR keeps taking over the United States,’ right.
JASPER: Yeah. I would actually— uh, if I— if I may, Eric—
ERIC: Please.
JASPER: —to hijack this for just a second.
ERIC: Please.
JASPER: Uh, to shout-out a board game that I got to play the other night and I fucking loved it.
ERIC: Go, go. Do it.
JASPER: It's called Veiled Fate.
ERIC: Okay.
JASPER: Uh, and essentially, the, uh, premise of this game is you, uh, you draw a card at the beginning, uh, which tells you which demigod you're going to play as.
ERIC: Ooh.
JASPER: Or, in fact, not you're— not you're going to play as, sorry, but you're going to kind of— you're connected to them, right? So, like, you want them to do well. And basically, the aim of it is, is that you have all these demigods floating around the board, anyone can move any demigod they want. And you are trying to get your demigod to have the most renown by the end of the game.
ERIC: Mm-hmm.
JASPER: But it's honestly like a fantasy version of poker.
ERIC: Ooh.
JASPER: I was playing it and it is amazing. It's like you're trying— you're trying to suss out who the person's demigod is whilst trying to figure out what's the best moves that you could possibly make. And there's so many fun, little game mechanics of how you can switch things up, change things, punish certain gods, reward certain gods, and you're— you're constantly trying to bait and switch, and make people think, 'Oh, maybe I'm this one. Maybe I'm this one.' And it is a really, really fun game that actually slapped two-player.
ERIC: Really?
JASPER: Like, actually— because— because it was like poker, but, like— but, uh—
ERIC: Sure.
JASPER: But almost like you had other players because there's nine demigods, so you—
ERIC: Okay.
JASPER: —during— we didn't figure out who the other person was until, like, literally the last, like, two moves. And then it was like— uh— uh, it's a very, very fun game. I really enjoyed it. And I would absolutely recommend it, because I'm constantly on the lookout for, like, good two-player games—
ERIC: Oh, sure.
JASPER: —that have repeatability, and this is like right up there. It's like a cracking two-player game that 100% you could play this a thousand times. It's so good.
ERIC: Honestly, we're also gonna have to have, like, a whole episode devoted to two-player board games and video games—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: —and tabletop—
JASPER: Absolutely.
ERIC: —R— RPG experiences. We should definitely do that.
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: Let's have another person who's married on here.
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: And, just like— just work it out.
JASPER: Just work it out. Just absolutely work it out. Uh—
ERIC: Yes, Ben— Ben Hanson, uh, suggested something called Dustbiters, which was really good for two people.
JASPER: Okay.
ERIC: Um, so I can send you that link as well when he was on the show.
JASPER: Hell yeah.
ERIC: Hell yeah, dude. All right. Well, Jasper, I promise, now that we're out of the game, I would never lie to you.
JASPER: Mm-hmm.
ERIC: Uh, and I'm so glad that we get to do this for another season, another year, all the way around the sun. Uh—
JASPER: All the way around the sun, baby.
ERIC: Uh, we're gonna do— we're gonna see all the different holidays that are in Animal Crossing
JASPER: That's—
ERIC: —which is the only way that I can mark time.
JASPER: That's— that's the only— Eric's brain is so broken by his Nintendo Switch.
ERIC: It's— it's really— it's really, really tough. Um, but, uh, hey, Jasper, where can people find you on the internet, buddy?
JASPER: Uh, you can find me @JW_Cartwright on all of my social medias. You can find me at Three Black Halflings, The Performance Capture Podcast, and a myriad of other places, including right here on Games and Feelings. Uh, check out my, uh, social media. There's some really cool stuff coming. Uh, I'm working on some really awesome things and I—
ERIC: Yeah.
JASPER: —really can't wait to tell everyone. My head might explode, because that's how exciting it all is.
ERIC: All the success, you deserve it, buddy.
JASPER: Thank you.
ERIC: Absolutely. You can find me on the internet. You can find me on Twitter @El_Silvero, E-L_S-I-L-V-E-R-O. My name if I was a Lucho Libre wrestler. And you can find Games and Feelings on Twitter @gamesnfeelings, like Linens—
JASPER: Ooh.
ERIC: —'n Things. Uh, and also— but we're regular on Instagram, because Elon Musk didn't like us, so we don't have it, but, you know—
JASPER: Yeah.
ERIC: —Zuckerberg was like, ‘I don't know. I opened the metaverse. We have pants now.' Uh, but please keep submitting your questions over on the website. You can find that, uh, at gamesandfeelings.com or just in the link in the episode description. Um, tell a friend, tell people about the show. We're— we're out here, buddy. We're out here.
JASPER: Spread the word.
ERIC: We're out here. Jasper, it's so nice to just vibe with you and to hang out. And remember, Jasper, remember.
JASPER: I'm gonna remember it.
ERIC: There's nothing in the instruction manual about feelings, not even in Orléans.
JASPER: Orléans.
ERIC: Orléans!
[theme song plays]
ERIC: Games and Feelings is produced by Eric Silver and edited and mixed by Mischa Stanton. The theme music is ‘Return to French Toast Castle’ by Jeff Brice. And the art was created by Jessica Boyd. Find transcripts for this episode, and all episodes, at our website, gamesandfeelings.com. Until next time, press X to enjoy the podcast.
Transcriptionist: DH
Editor: KM
Proofreader: SR