Do You Have a Game Rec for the Buddha? with Mischa Stanton & Matthew Marquez
Level three is the water level! We’re sorry that we made a water level, but the music slaps. Luckily audio editor extraordinaire Mischa Stanton and podcaster Matthew Marquez have the proper rhythm when pressing A so they can show you what to do.
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Credits
- Host, Producer, & Question Keeper: Eric Silver
- Editor & Mixer: Mischa Stanton
- Music by: Jeff Brice
- Multitude: multitude.productions
About Us
Games and Feelings is an advice podcast about being human and loving all types of games: video games, tabletop games, party games, laser tag, escape rooms, game streams, and anything else that we play for fun. Join Question Keeper Eric Silver and a revolving cast of guests as they answer your questions at the intersection of fun and humanity, since, you know, you gotta play games with other people. Whether you need a game recommendation, need to sort out a dispute at the table, or decide whether an activity is good for a date, we’re your instruction manual. New episodes drop every other Friday.
Transcript
Eric: Hello gamers! Welcome to Games and Feelings an advice show about playing games, being human and dealing with the fact that those games also involve other humans. I am your host and question keeper Eric Silver and my Pokemon gym and gimmick would be an ice type gym, but it's like snow themed. So you have to do a bunch of mini games like sledding races and snowball fights and hot chocolate creation, with like milk tank milk, or soy milk or whatever they use. Fucking Pokemon for people who don't have lactose tolerance to get to the main gym.
Mischa: Hi, I'm Mischa Stanton. My Pokemon Gym is water and ghost because it's a haunted beachside town.
Eric: Oh fuck yeah dude. I like the idea that you have to do an arcade like like a gashapon that like takes your soul, or it swamps you with a Ghastly.
Mischa: There's like a funhouse mirror and back it's just one mirror but it does allow you passage into the mirror dimension and like you can ripple through it and it's like a crazy nega-arcade.
Eric: I like that. I like how you were secretly Giratina the whole time. That's good.
Mischa: Yeah, absolutely.
Marquez: Hi, my name is Matthew James Marquez. I go by Marquez most of the time, pretty much all of the time. And I've thought about this for forever. My Pokemon gym would be a poison type gym, that's just based on theater, you know, spitting insults at each other Shakespeare style. That's the poison that I'm playing with.
Eric: I really like that.
Mischa: Spitting verbal poison, got it?
Eric: I like that it's like - can it be like Poison/Normal but the normal is just the sound pokemon, and they’re the crew?
Marquez: No, because I've known some very, very witty and smart crew people that can spit poison with the best of them.
Eric: That's fair. All talent is talent. That's my fault.
Mischa: Make Sound type its own Pokemon type!
Marquez: Oh, yes, of course.
Eric: That would be nice. But then normal would just be like a cat and Mr. Mime. So I feel like they have to keep it.
Mischa: This is a very hot take, Normal should just be a Pokemon that doesn't have any types.
Marquez: Yeah.
Eric: Mmmm, like, like, clear.
Mischa: There should be no type. And like, that's what, like Scratch and all of those moves are. They're just like, they don't have one.
Marquez: Again, what is fighting type except a normal type that is trained a bit?
Eric: No, that's good. I also like the idea because it comes from Arceus that like normal is like, there's a godliness. Like, there's a clericness of being normal, that even though it's basic, or you know, like the absence of color is whites, something like.
Mischa: Sure, type purity, if you will.
Marquez: Don't let the Pokemon hegemony define your existence.
Eric: It's not my fault there's like a pope in Pokemon that they made a, that it was a Jesus creation myth. I didn't do that. I've just responded to what exists.
Marquez: I personally blame you, Eric.
Eric: [Laughs] That’s right, noted Jewish Gamesman Eric Silver - [Marquez laughs] creates Christian creation myth in Pokemon, that's me. This is exactly what I wanted from having you two on. Thank you so much for joining Games and Feelings. We're gonna give some really good advice. Both of you are very, very knowledgeable in the specific things that you do. And I would love to go to our first questions, NFAQs, Not Frequently Asked Questions. He can't find this in the Prima guide. You got to go to the interviews that have been translated and you don't know how good the translation is. So maybe if they reference a hippopotamus, it's not really a hippopotamus. It's a mistranslation. I just need to check with the sources.
Mischa: And the source leads back to the GameFAQs message boards. [All laugh]
Eric: He was actually one of you doing a message board. Yeah. Marquez I would love to start with you. Matthew James Marquez. Did I remember is that, your your correct middle name?
Marquez: That is correct. Yeah.
Eric: Okay, I got it. Marquez Tiberius Marquez. [Laughs] I nailed it the second time. Just like I know you from the wonderful show Tabletop Potluck. Currently on a hiatus, but you in the merry band of gamers would learn a new tabletop RPG game, and then play that on an actual play podcast. Like that's on wax for people to hear you start a new game, which truly makes me break out in sweat. How do you pick up new games and feel confident enough that you like can play it well enough that it deserves to go on wax and you're letting other people hear it?
Marquez: First off, never have confidence. [Eric laughs] Number one. I do firmly believe that if you are 100% confident in what you're doing, you will fail. [Laughs] I think that it's almost impossible to pick up a RPG rulebook and learn all the rules. So even if you've been playing it for years, there are still rules in the dungeon game that I will never know. Uh, those rule books are long and incomprehensible to me any rule book, if you sit down, like the only RPG that I can learn full is something that is one page. I do think that you just kind of let go of your preconceptions of knowing everything, which can be a little bit scary, that's a big one is just like, you're not going to know everything. And also, you can't plan out everything.
Eric: Sure, like, ultimately, you're just kind of like, I'm going to play a game with my friends. And these, this paper that has words on it helps, but we're just gonna like figure it out as it goes.
Marquez: It ultimately doesn't matter. Because what really matters is what your players react to. And you just have to play along with them. Because you will have a character that you think is really important, and you've poured your heart and soul into it. And then they will not ask that person's name.
Eric: No. Very fair,
Mischa: Or the opposite will happen where like, you just come up with like a funny little guy in the moment. What's his name? What's his wife's name? What's his family life?
Marquez: Yep! You just gotta roll with it. The good thing about a lot of RPGs is they do generally tend to live in the world of genre fiction. So you could definitely just say, these are the things I like, from this genre, make a bullet point list of aspects that you like, and then just have them on hand. I like tend to have like, factions. That's another thing that Friends at the Table, Austin Walker, likes to have. It's just factions. What house do you belong to? That's just such a fun little thing that you can put in like, almost every genre fiction. [Laughs]
Eric: Absolutely. I think the thing that always trips me up, especially when it's a one page RPG, if I sit down and I read it, and I'm like, I have no idea how the dice work in this. Like, I think I was playing a moth man, like, aw, moth man is at my house, and he's sleeping on my couch. And I'm having a really hard time dealing with that. And like I was trying to figure out how the dice worked. And I'm just like, I don't know, how many days do I roll? How do I figure out if I win? Like, is it worth kind of just like smooshing it into a game system you already understand like a Lasers and Feelings or a PBTA? Where it's just like, alright, the game mechanics here don't really make sense for we're gonna roll 2d6, and whatever you get, we're gonna use PBTA.
Marquez: I think that it really doesn't matter, at the end of the day, what you roll.
Eric: Hell yeah.
Marquez: Like, there is a difference between recording something for consumption and playing on your own. I think at the end of the day, you could have rules problems when you're recording something. And you could just say, like, yeah, I got that wrong. Sorry. [Eric laughs] I went back and figured that out. But it doesn't really change the story that I wanted to tell. So if somebody were to ever point that out to you just say, you got me that was wrong. I am not going back and changing what I said.
Eric: Someone kicks down your door, and they have a Portillo's in one hand and Chicago dog in the other and be like, I had a lovely time in Chicago. And you were wrong when you recorded that on the podcast. I also knew, I feel like I should get context that you live in Chicago. Someone's not just showing up with the accoutrement of Chicago. And just like in their head Marquez’s house in New Mexico.
Marquez: Yes. Don't bring me a Chicago hot dog in New Mexico.
Eric: [Laughs] Thank you, Marquez. I really appreciate it. I will not bring you that power up. Mischa Stanton. I have a question for you.
Mischa: Okay.
Eric: You are always telling me the hot new craze when it comes to accessibility in video games.
Mischa: I try to, I try to keep up with it.
Eric: It's the hot new thing that's taking the world by storm, accessibility, [Mischa laughs] allowing everyone to play games. I feel like I just want to platform for you to talk about the thing. Maybe if you've seen around. What's, what's your hot take about accessibility right now?
Mischa: My hot take about accessibility right now is how much I dislike ‘git gud’ culture.
Eric: Yes.
Mischa: That if you somebody plays a game, and it's like, Hey, I'm having a really hard time, like physically making my hands move fast enough that I can successfully play this game. And its rabid fan base is like, well, your hands just suck and you can't play this game. And that's bad. And I don't like that. I think that narratives that are important to our culture as we have all collectively decided that video games are and tabletop games are like, like it's 2022, we all pretty much agree games important part of culture, and so to take that like part of the cultural conversation and put it behind the door of like, you have to be able bodied and smart enough and like all of these things, just to participate in the conversation in the first place. I'm not gonna say it's like abnormal, that happens to disabled people a lot, but it is shitty in that.
Eric: Fair. Very fair.
Mischa: So like this has come up a lot because a lot of my friends are playing Elden Ring. And that is a game for a variety of reasons, and a genre of game for a variety of reasons, I feel like I have a hard time participating in. I have hand joints that are bad. I have like a low tolerance for frustration due to my neurodivergencies. It's just like not a game that I have ever felt was trying to ever meet me halfway, or like a genre - I, this is to say, all my friends are talking about Elden Ring. What I'm talking about is Bloodborne. But in my brain, they're the same game. [Laughs] I know they're not -
Eric: I mean, they're, they almost are though.
Marquez: Eeeh, they’re the same game.
Mischa: Okay, great, good, I feel better. [Marquez laughs] But for counterexample, Eric, you and several of my other friends also finally got me to play Control, four years late. And like the one thing you probably could have said to me to get me to play Control sooner is Hey, did you know you can go into the settings and turn off dying, like no matter how many times people shoot you versus you shoot them, like, you'll just continue to progress and you won't get level reset, if that's the thing you want to do, if you just want to experience the story of control, which is very cool. And I would have been like, whoa, let me go turn that on immediately. And that's exactly what happened. And sure I get hit and I try to get hit as little as possible. Because that's like part of the fun of playing it. But also, just because I get really, really stressed out in shooters. And like that compounds, like I'll get shot, and I'll start freaking out and then I'll get shot more, and I'll freak out more. And all of a sudden I'm dead. And I like lose my directional awareness, which is also very important in shooters. To have Control be like, hey, when that happens, you don't have to reset your progress or lose anything, is nice, is good. And lets me just like experience the actual story without getting tripped up or stressed out.
Eric: Yeah, we're just like some dudes who aren’t that good at video games and don't want you to be yelled at on the internet. So I appreciate like, we're seeing the various ways of how being accessible is good for all people, for varying, for all the various reasons they have, not just like baby shit.
Mischa: If you want to, like take that further, like my partner, Erin has cerebral palsy, and she doesn't have control over her left hand. So like gripping a controller just to play any game is the thing she has to contend with. I know that there are adaptive controllers and API's for adaptive controllers that like cross platforms, like for example, I think you can use the Xbox adaptive controller system with the Nintendo Switch, and there's like a Steam map for it. So I know that there are those options and there, that that in particular is pretty accessible. And I'm following you know, development and software development of it as it gets more and more into the hands of disabled people who can actually modify it for their own needs. But then there's also - what's a good example, we played God of War 2018, together, where I was kind of the hands and the dexterity of it. But that was a game, especially that one because it's all supposed to be like a one shot, you know, it's like the camera is continuous. It's very immersive for an RPG. And so she felt like she could stay in it. And she was really doing a lot of the problem solving, I don't really know that there's like a concrete thing that made that more accessible versus other things. But in a very abstract way, that narrative was more accessible than a game that like, puts those kinds of things behind a wall.
Eric: I definitely agree with that. I think that people maybe in the conversation that we have about “are games arts,” because obviously that's good, because we're looking at it, and we care about it. And we want it to be an artistic medium that people are putting time and effort to do. It also needs to be fun.
Mischa: Yeah!
Eric: Like, that's the thing about the things we're going to talk about on this show. It is an activity you do to have fun, and gaining that, behind the type of fun that I think people are supposed to have is really kind of wack and probably a lot of the problems that people are bumping into when we talk about the questions we have on the show.
Mischa: That also comes down to like the psychographic of the type of gamer you are
Eric: Oh fuck yeah, dude.
Mischa: There is a certain type of person who plays games, and has fun by proving that they're better than other people at that game. And that's not just a competitive game like Magic: the Gathering where you're playing a physical person, like that can be a single player game. [Laughs] And that mindset, um, sucks and I don't make friends with those people.
Marquez: Listen, if you add accessibility options to your games, you don't have to use them!
Mischa: Yeah, like there's an entire section of the speedrun website where you type in exactly what your modifications to the game are and how you're completing it. Like, it doesn't invalidate people who don't use those things being good at the game, like you're not worse at the game because someone else gets to play it.
Eric: It's almost like the things that we say in other spaces when we talk about this are also applicable to games. Just because it exists doesn't mean it doesn't ruin your shit. Just don't use it. You don't need to do the thing that other people need.
Mischa: That's how I view gender.
Eric: [Laughs] All right, do you two want to answer some, some advice questions?
Mischa: Yes.
Marquez: Yes.
Eric: Okay. I have a question here that's from Isabella. But because I am the question keeper, I reserve the right to give you a silly advice column type name. So this is from “Run, Pacifist, Run!,” how to do an evil slash mean run in choice games and not feel like a human failure. Now, I want to say first and foremost, we do not feel that way for you. I understand you're putting that out there and that is an experience you're having. None of us here feel like you're a failure, just because you like kick the chicken in Fable 2, just so you know.
Mischa: No! I, I think that there's a kind of game - and by kind of game, I mean, Undertale.
Eric: Right. [Mischa and Marquez laugh]
Mischa: Where the game tells you don't hurt people or you're a bad person, which is a great lesson to take with you in real life. And Undertale was important in that way. Because it was really the, the heaviest handed version of that question being posed to players of video games in a modern context. But like, the reason that there is content in Undertale, for if you don't do a pacifist run means that that's a valid way to play the game.
Marquez: Yes.
Mischa: Like, if the game didn't want you to hurt someone, it wouldn't let you games are closed systems. The fact that there are options means that there's content to explore. And as a content consumer, you are allowed and within your rights to explore that content.
Marquez: I do dislike when games slap you on the hand and go ‘look at you, you did this when you don't have a choice.’
Eric: Oh you mean The Last of Us 2, which is the literally entire embodiment of that entire goddamn game is “look at how you kill people. I can't believe you did that.”
Mischa: There's actually a prime example of this again with my partner, Erin. Another game we bought to play together in that way was Shadow of the Colossus remaster for ps4. And we played the first Colossus and Erin said, ‘No, I hate this.’ She saw that Titan fall with that dramatic music and that beautiful cinematography -
Marquez: Sad.
Mischa: - and was like, ‘No, I hate this. I don't want to play this anymore. Turn it off, please.’ And I said, ‘Congratulations, you beat Shadow of the Colossus. Good job.’
Eric: Yes.
Marquez: Yes. valid, valid reaction
Mischa: Literally the only way to win that game.
Marquez: Yes. I would like to say to the question asker, you can always look up that option on YouTube. And you never have to make that choice. And it's kind of like you're making that choice, because you're typing into the bar, like ‘bad run Mass Effect.’ And you can just watch all of that renegade scenes and you didn't make that choice. That was someone else, that's over there, I can still enjoy the cutscene. But I didn't make that choice.
Eric: Honestly, it is such a blessing to all of us who want to do scary things and bad things that we could just look it up on YouTube. And it's totally fine. I think we kind of alluded to two things. There are two different questions here. One is the Shadow of the Colossus thing that Mischa just said. And the Last of Us 2 thing where the video game is pushing your, your face into the toilet and giving you a swirly and telling you you're a bad person. I think that we definitely touched on that one. The game is doing it to you, you're experiencing they will want you to do that. The other one is the Undertale thing and the other ones like that, is where a group of people who love the game are telling you you're a bad person for choosing a choice.
Mischa: [Laughs] Yeah.
Eric: I think that peer pressure element and being able to like say that freely without having a bunch of Sans Undertales get in your menties, which I don't know if it happens anymore, but definitely happened a few years ago. Like what do you do when the, when the group of people who love the game are telling you you're right or you're wrong?
Marquez: Touch grass? [All laugh]
Mischa: Yeah, honestly. Unfortunately, the answer is to like close Twitter and Tumblr and go back to enjoying the game you're playing.
Marquez: Yeah.
Mischa: Because again, like games like Undertale games, where they do truly give you the option and it's the fan base telling you that there's only one way to play it, like the fan base is wrong.
Marquez: Yeah.
Mischa: There's multiple ways to play it as evidenced by the fact that the people who made the game programmed in more than one way to play it. Like that's the same kind of people who will like completely stop talking to you after being friends with you from like childhood because you said a thing that they disagree with about Steven Universe.
Eric: Oh god, oh my god,
Mischa: Like chill the fuck out!
Eric: Jesus, Jesus Christ. Yeah, I forgot that the there was an option to just turn off your internet like, go to that little button up there that says Wi Fi and said turn it off and then you can get off.
Marquez: It's the same thing as turning off Shadow of the Colossus, this is a valid option.
Eric: I love Erin, Erin speed ran Shadow of the Colossus. [Laughs]
Mischa: She beat Shadow of the Colossus in eight minutes, it's incredible.
Marquez: Any percent speedrun! [Mischa laughs]
Eric: Any percent morality speed run, turn off video game.
Mischa: Any percent 8%, and then we turned it off. I don't want to belittle the fact that like okay, yes, that does involve like cutting yourself off from community. But like, those people suck and find a better community. [Laughs]
Marquez: Yeah, no, that's fair.
Eric: I think that is fair. Like you know you don't have to take that shit. I realize that extracting yourself from that is bad. But like you should not internalize that. That is an external factor putting on you. And if someone is doing that you can be like, `Hey, can you not tell me I'm a bad person because I hurt Sans Undertale?’ I think that's a worthwhile thing to say to another person. If they are making you feel bad.
Marquez: I say that to people all the time, that exact sentence.
Eric: [Laughs] Marquez, you're at your job, would you pick up the phone and being like, ‘Stop telling me I feel bad because of Sans Undertale.’
Marquez: I hurt Sans Undertale all the time.
Mischa: Listen, he's, he's already bones, he can take it.
Eric: “Run, Pacifist, Run,” don't feel like you're a bad person because you're interacting with art. And you don't have to tell anyone on Twitter or Tumblr. And if someone's telling you that you feel bad, that's on them.
Mischa: I will also say if you do a genocide run of Undertale and then you manage to beat Sans in that final fight. Man, that's some bragging rights. Holy shit.
Marquez: Yeah.
Eric: I'm trying to think, Are there any other games that I'm, that we're not thinking of that like really make you feel bad about this stuff?
Marquez: Oh, yes. Spec Ops: The Line?
Eric: Oh, that's a good one.
Marquez: Yeah, you just kind of like do a war crime. And then they're like, how do you feel about doing this war crime that you pressed a to commit? It's like, I don't feel bad.
Mischa: I feel like I wasted 60 bucks.
Marquez: Yeah! [Laughs]
Eric: I think that was important, though. Because if you're willingly buying like a US Army shooter -
Marquez: Oh yeah, it's meta important. But like -
Mischa: It's important that a thing sponsored by the US military said the quiet part out loud, but I already spend the money on this game from my paycheck.
Eric: Right. I also think that if you are feeling bad about this, you might not be the target audience that needs to be explicitly told about that you're doing a bad job. It sounds like you have emotions that are accessible to people who are making arts and game and are pushing at it. So I think you're fine. Good job having feelings.
Marquez: Like, what if you played an entire RPG, where like Dungeons and Dragons in your DM threw a bunch of goblins at you, but didn't tell you that it was an option to not kill them and then said, ‘and here's the goblin babies that have no parents now,’ you would be like, cool. I'm quitting this game.
Eric: I've heard of that before, I really have. But like, I've only heard that in the way where someone needs to be punished. Like you need to tell your murder hobo group that like things have stakes and people are people and monsters are people. Like I've never heard someone do that from the jump and being like, ‘Whoa, I already knew that people were people, you don't have to lay it on thick. In my, in my fun time.’ Like you didn't have to do that.
Marquez: Like I've always told my players like this town has laws. And if you commit murder, things will happen to you.
Mischa: The kind of person who needs that in their TTRPG experience, the kind of person who spends the first five levels being a murder hobo, generally getting into chaos, picking the chaotic choice even if it hurts bystanders without thought to them, the kind of person who needs the session where you go look at these goblin wife and children, I feel like is the same kind of person who would learn that lesson and go, ‘Oh, killing NPCs is wrong, play Undertale for a pacifist run, and then shame people who don't on the internet.’
Marquez: That's fair.
Mischa: There's like a linear progression through like one thing where you like you got the first point. But now you have to like get the second point. You know what I mean? Like, you're still going.
Marquez: It's all about given expectations. Does the game give you the choice to do this? Does the GM tell you that you have an option here? Like you can't punish people. Like what if at the end of Bioshock, you were punished for the plot twist of BioShock. You're not punished for it. They're not like ‘wow, look at you, you were just being weak.’ It was like no, Andrew Ryan is wrong and a bad guy. [Eric laughs]
Mischa: There's also a game with a moral mechanic that builds in meta commentary about how we play video games without making you feel bad for any particular choice. I guess they do kind of shame you a little bit but like it's all in good fun I feel like in Bioshock.
Marquez: Yeah. Listen, I'm not gonna get into Bioshock: Infinite. I can't do it.
Eric: That doesn't count, that was like, what if it was the 1950s in the sky? Is that good? Is that good for you?
Mischa: What if we built a video game concept around the idea of hiring Postmodern Jukebox for the music?
Eric: [Laughs] And also, everything was fine starting in 1952. And we should never question it.
Mischa: Actually, have y'all played Bioshock Infinite?
Marquez: Yes.
Mischa: The best part in that game is where you find that wall, or that, that painting or it's like a canvas or a wall or something where it says like ‘City waterline - No. City clouds - Yes.’ [Eric laughs] That's in there. They put that in the games.
Marquez: Good.
Eric: That's very funny. Wonderful. I think that we have tapped into it. We finally nailed it. It's all cities should be on clouds and that would make everything better.
[Segment Transition Music]
Eric: Oh, this is the Snack Break. You know how you call time on everyone to get chips and go pee. It's like that but for Games and Feelings, the podcast. Thank you to everyone who has been listening and sharing the show, it has been wild to start a podcast in the year of our Lord 2022. But it's been a lot of fun. And thank you for everyone who's been reaching out, please tell us if you're liking the show, compliments fuel my body. So I definitely want that. We were featured on Pocket Casts and hit nine in hobbies on the Apple podcast charts, which is pretty cool, because Critical Role is number one, and they're like a full company and backed by Amazon. So it's pretty cool. The best way to grow the show is to share it with a friend. So share this episode with someone who loves games, advice, jokes, or interesting guests, any and everything in between. We will also eventually have ads here because this is the midroll slash Snack Break. So our first ad is for our patreon patreon.com/gamesandfeelings. Here is the big goal. Once we get 100 patrons, we'll go weekly, that is our ultimate goal. We really want the show to go weekly, but we need some support from all of you. But that's not all. At $5 a month you get a feed of bonus questions, more Games and Feelings audio for you where we dig into classic advice columns and see if we can solve their problems from a gamer perspective. At $10 you get the secret priority question forum where I deliver advice hot and ready for you. And you're much more likely to have your questions addressed than just the regular form. $20, a sporting producer tier where I read your name every single episode. And at $69 a month - Nice - you get me for an hour on video chat, doing whatever games related stuff you want. And of course, for any and all patrons, I will read your names out loud. That is patreon.com/gamesandfeelings. And now back to the games.
[Segment Transition Music]
Eric: Do what y'all want another question?
Marquez: Yes.
Mischa: Yes, please!
Eric: Okay, here's a good question from two people who spent a lot of time thinking about tabletop RPGs. This is from Brabra, but I'm going to come up with a different name and call them ‘Storebought is Fine’: “What's a good way to balance homebrew and published content? I love homebrew. While the party is half rules lawyers and half new to Dungeons and Dragons.” I think specifically the homebrew that we're talking about are like coming up with new game mechanics from scratch. Like we're not even talking about re-skinning where you can point to something maybe that's already published and say no, this is fine. This is where this comes from, coming up with brand new mechanics and then the rules lawyers poking at it. And the new players being a little bit maybe being a little bit confused or not knowing how to approach it.
Marquez: I want to be in your game. First off. [Laughs] I think that that sounds like a lot of fun. As for dealing with that I have done this before, where I have run a homebrew, like little mini game. And it was met with skepticism and confusion. The goal should be ‘Hey, guys, let me just try this. If it doesn't work, like that's fine. But I really think that this was a cool, interesting thing.’ Like I hate giving the same answer that I gave last time. But it's about giving expectations that you present to your players, like rules lawyers, just reach them ahead of the past and just be like, listen, I know that this might be clunky. But I want to figure out what in this works so I can readjust it. Instead of waiting for them to knock at all of the things that you didn't do right, ask them for feedback so that you can you know, fix it or readjust it and say like, you're going to actually be my helper. And like, get, get ahead of them on that. Just be like ‘this is your job. But please don't be mean, but be nice.’
Mischa: Yeah. It's about setting expectations. It's about communication, like being upfront about when and on what you would like feedback. Yeah, that's the kind of thing be like,
“Hey, I'm going to homebrew thing. And the, you know, rules, lawyers, you'd like poking at it. But please don't intentionally try to break it and have a bad time. Because we have new players.” I always also say like I homebrew a lot. But I always tell newbies that I'm doing it.
Marquez: Yeah.
Mischa: Even if this is their first and only game of D&D, where like if I never told them, they would think this was part of the game. I'll be like, “Hey, this is actually a thing I've made up just so you know, if you ever try to go play another game, this is a thing that's only here,” just so that they have proper expectations for future games. And maybe that's me being nicer to their future DMs than I necessarily need to be, but I'm a nice person. [Not nice voice] You're welcome! [All laugh] Yeah, like, you know, homebrew is game design. And a, an iterative feedback process is integral to game design. That's how, that's how QA works. That's how games get better. So telling people that that's what you're trying to do before they go in might help them frame their commentary in a direction that helps you more.
Eric: Mischa, hold on, I have to reach through the screen and I'm putting a gold star on your face. There you go, Good job. Oh no, I touched your nipple. I'm so sorry,
Mischa: I - [Laughs] that's not where my face is.
Eric: I was having a hard time getting through the screen. I'm not as dexterous on the other side.
Mischa: I'm not against it, but you need to check your aim, pal.
Eric: Now I'm working on it. I, these powers are new for me. My electrotelo communication.
Marquez: Also, Dungeons and Dragons released a whole system and then had to rework the Ranger class, so what…
Eric: Have they even reworked the Ranger class? Like it, that's the weird thing about actually published Dungeons and Dragons. Is that like, they just published a bunch of shit that doesn't like negate the old stuff? It's like “use this I guess. I don't know, if you want to.”
Mischa: If you feel like using this one today you can!
Marquez: So the newer editions of the Player's Handbook have a different Ranger than the original ones because they had to fix it, because it wasn't balanced enough.
Eric: Oh, I didn't even know that. That's impressive. But it's not the, it's not the fully reworked one. It's just like balanced, right?
Marquez: It's - no, it's the one that they reworked.
Eric: Oh, Okay.
Marquez: Yeah.
Eric: Because that's exactly that's explicitly to, and they don't talk about that, obviously, because they don't want to admit they're wrong ever. But like, it's very funny. Let's see, we're talking about the way that they consider race in monsters. The only thing that they did when they put it in Tasha’s Bowl Of Magic Which I Swirled Up Together” -
Marquez: I love that book.
Mischa: Tasha's bowl of soup. Delicious.
Eric: Is that they were like, “yeah, if you don't want to use race essentialist stats, don't I guess,” it’s they very much put it in the hands of the player, which I think is kind of irresponsible. But I think that it does then says you can do whatever you want at the table. And it's your choice.
Marquez: But, and that's to me, that's a cop out because that's all rules for RPG.
Mischa: So yeah, that's always been true since the first edition.
Eric: What are you talking about? You have to follow exactly what they write. Why would they be an entire company that you have to spend $600 on books for if you don't follow it to the letter.
Mischa: That is the rule zero of every game is just like, yes, all of these are the rules by which you should play a game but rule zero of every game is, talk to the people you're playing the game with, talk about what kind of game you want to have and have it. Do whatever you need to to change it so that it's the game you want to be playing with your friends.
Eric: Yeah. I, that's very interesting. I wonder what the motivation of the rules lawyers are. Maybe like I've kind of excised all the people who want to break my game from being able to play my game, because they're mean and jerks. And I told them they were mean to jerks.
Mischa: I don't know. Eric, you and I both play games with Julia Schifinni.
Eric: Yeah, but I punish, I punish Julia Schifinni by making her cry over family situations.
Mischa: Yeah, okay, fair. So do I. That's awesome.
Eric: And then we take away her powers. [Mischa laughs]
Marquez: See, I think that for rules lawyers, I think that the good ones - because like the good rules lawyers, I think want to make sure that everyone is playing the game the same way. I'm just thinking of like, what I hate is rolling stats in Dungeons and Dragons, because sometimes someone will get like, well, “I've got three 17s” and then I'll go, “Well, I've got one 15, or like, and one 12. And like three 10s. And well, that's just inherently going to keep my character back.”
Eric: I 100% agree with you on this. I always use standard.
Marquez: Yeah. And so like a bad rules lawyer will say, well, that's how we decided to do it. So that's, you know, and it's in the rule book. But it's like, I don't know, there's something about the rule book that it gives you so many options to do something different. So how is there a right answer?
Mischa: That's just like a real lawyer. It's like, yes, you have the written letter of the law. But it's open to interpretation by all sides, depending on what everybody wants out of the situation.
Marquez: And what if the law is wrong?
Mischa: Yeah! And what if the laws is wrong and should be changed, that's also a thing we do. Like,Aabria Iyengar on Dimension 20: The Seven developed this reputation over the course of that campaign of like being like a public defender rules lawyer, where she would come in with rules things so that the players could get advantage and wouldn't really bring up when the players were wrong. And like, there's a certain defending of your fellow players in situations that are malleable that is more noble than attempting to manipulate the language of the rules as written to gain a personal advantage at the cost of the other people at the table. Like that's, that's a sleazy rules layer. Yes, that's like an ambulance chaser rules lawyer.
Marquez: I was like, that’s Saul Goodman. [Laughs]
Mischa: I am currently watching Better Call Saul. So yeah, it's on my mind. [Laughs]
Eric: “Have you been injured in a Dungeons and Dragons accident? Hi, I'm Eric Silver, injury rules lawyer, and you don't get paid unless nat 20s are on your board.”
Mischa: Bob Odenkirk in Goblin makeup and fake teeth with a medieval material but like well-cut lawyer suit. I'm putting that into my next campaign.
Eric: That really feels like a Mr. Show sketch. Honestly, I'm surprised.
Mischa: Yeah. [Laughs]
Eric: Then David Cross comes in and does like a very racist accent for some reason like that definitely aged poorly. Yeah, it's funny that we're making comparisons between rules lawyers and actual lawyers. Because like, I think the issue similar to how we deal with the Supreme Court is that you can just like kind of tweet at Jeremy Crawford who works there? And like, see what he has to say, like that, like there is a higher court than what is actually at your table. And like, I like that a lot.
Marquez: Bad, no, I don't like that.
Eric: Sorry. I was thinking about Dungeon Court and Not Another D&D Podcast.
Marquez: Oh, oh okay.
Eric: Like, Hey, I like being able to ask someone else if they can adjudicate but I do not. I agree. I do not like at going above the person who's at the table. Like the whole point - I'm running the game! Don't try to fucking take out my knees while I'm trying to make us all have fun!
Marquez: If a player went behind my back and tweeted at Jeremy Crawford “Well, my GM said this, what is the real rule” and then showed it to me as though it is a like Word of God? I would be like, cool. Now I definitely don't want that rule in my game.
Eric: Definitely.
Mischa: Yeah, for sure. I would, I would definitely be like, “Okay, well, rules as written. There's an NPC that you didn't know about. That's a 20th level wizard that casts Meteor Swarm, have fun.”
Eric: I know. It’s like, the only thing holding this whole thing together is that the person who does has decided to tell the story doesn't just say fuck you guys. Like I, you know, like, let's all, why can't we all just be harmonious? And like, Listen, I'm just trying to have fun. And I think ultimately, what Mischa, you said in the beginning of this question, is like, I want to do something so that we can accommodate the game we're playing or give you something very specific. I hope you like it. If it's broken, we'll fix it.
Marquez: Yeah.
Mischa: Yeah.
Eric: Like I, That's enough. Like, we're all just trying to have fun here.
Marquez: If it's not fun. If this ends up being not fun, I'm sorry.
Eric: [Laughs] I'm so sorry.
Marquez: Like I misjudged that.
Mischa: And if your version of fun comes at the cost of everyone else's fun, that becomes a like, hey, let's stop the game and have a conversation about how we act together person to person, that is where like, a heavy conversation outside of the game probably needs to happen, because those people should change their behavior.
Marquez: I have been one of those people.
Mischa: Did it help?
Marquez: So what happens is I, in character, sometimes say that someone's idea is not the greatest. And then the person is like, well, but I really liked that idea. And I wanted to do it. I was like, I am very sorry, I will not do that anymore. It's like no, you in-character had an idea. And me in-character shot it down. I would like you to know in the future you can crap on my character, if I were to do that again. But also, I'll try not to do that again. Like, I want you to have fun if you have a weird idea. Because I think that another thing is like people sometimes are just like, Well, my character would say this, it’s like, Yeah, but what's good for the fun of the people playing as opposed to the constructed character that you have in your brain?
Mischa: Yeah, that's a big thing, too, is that like, you can make your character such that they would do anything, so that like it being in character for the character you've been playing is no excuse for killing the fun for everyone else.
Marquez: Yeah.
Mischa: Like, you don't get character development at the cost of the game not being fun.
Eric: Yes, nothing is funnier to me, and I wish people did this more on actual play recorded stuff, but I wish I could do this more of it is that, is me saying my character hates this, but the player loves this. That sentence is so perfect, that it's enough for you to say you just need to give me a reason to go along with this. And I will say, I will make the imaginary man I'm controlling say yes. You know, this is also, I think about the times that someone plays like a knight or a Paladin, someone like a very, or Batman for that matter with like a very hard code of ethics -
Marquez: No fun!
Eric: But like, No, you try to make it happen and be like, “I want you to happen, but you need to give me something that will make you that will give me some excuse.” So it's like, well, ‘you're blindfolded for the rest of the session.’ I'm like, perfect, thank you. Or like ‘I'm turned around, I refuse to turn around. For the entire time we're in this brothel,’ I'm only going to look at behind me and down to the ground. Like that's very funny. And you can put yourself in that particular situation, as long as you the player are available to putting yourself into a silly situation to accommodate it by your code, your code of ethics and whether that's your player or you as a rules person.
Marquez: Listen, Batman, you have a thing about not killing, you could just look away.
Eric: [Laughs] Batman walks away as Deadpool says “All righty friends!” Something though that I am very happy about this. We've already said the point is to have fun to so many questions we've done so far, is it going to be a repetitive thing? This is why I love this show, and I want this show to continue is that you know how most advice shows or just talk to your friend, talk to your mother. Yeah, talk to the bride. It's the same thing as “we're just trying to have fun here” is ultimately the, the response to a lot of these questions.
Mischa: Well, the reason we've elevated games in our cultural discourse is because fun has become a very important building block of our society. I mean, on the darkest end of that, it's like capitalism has come up with a way to distract you from the dystopia it's creating around you. And that's important industry. But like on the other positive end, like having fun in the face of a world that tells you just to be a cog in a machine and not feel things is radical.
Marquez: Having fun is a precious resource.
Eric: Exactly.
Marquez: Yeah!
Eric: It's one of the 12 resources that we have in this world. But it's the one that I actually understand. And I know how to trade for different, for sheep for wheat, for fun.
Mischa: Lot of people make funny, Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs jokes, but like fun is in there. [Laughs] Fun is like, it's one of the top couple layers, but like it's super in there.
Eric: I think there's also something really important about doing something that doesn't make the numbies go up. Or that you're just like, I'm going to do something just because because I like it because it makes us all feel good. Like, who cares that I spent $70 on the Super edition book, then someone in a corporation wrote it. I didn't, we're just gonna do the thing that makes the most sense. I think there's something very I don't know, I don't want to say radical but like, Fuck, doesn't it feel like a really powerful act sometimes.
Mischa: Yeah, powerful act is a good way to talk about it, too. It may seem frivolous because of the values that our society puts on it. But like it is powerful to be in a room with people you care about and all experience joy together.
Eric: Marquez I want to give you the last word just because, us two Jews feel like we interrupt for fun. [Mischa laughs] So I want to give you the last word.
Marquez: I would like to say that stealing from large companies in order to have fun isn't really stealing.
Eric: Awesome. I like it. Someone cross stitch that please, I would love that.
Mischa: Where's the Games and Feelings merch store? Let's go.
Marquez: Oh no, that, this PDF of Dungeons and Dragons fell off the back of a truck. [Mischa laughs]
Eric: Achoo, oh no, I spilled Dungeons and Dragons on the ground. I hope someone picks it up.
Marquez: Oh no, I, I have a bunch of Magic the Gathering proxies of $300 cards. Where did these come from? [All laugh]
Eric: I’m dropping them everywhere, my, my hand are so slippery.
Mischa: Somebody I've been playing Magic gathering with recently has a proxy Smother Tie that's just Bernie Sanders “I'm once again asking you.”
Marquez: Good. Great
Eric: [Laughs] Speaking of fun, I would like to go to our final segment, Queries from the Internet, net, net, net.
Marquez: That's just what Mischa and I are. We're Queeries from the Internet.
Mischa: Heyoo!
Eric: Ey! Oooh! All right, Queries on the Internet. Sometimes we take a question from Quora, sometimes we look into the Yahoo Answers archive, or somewhere else on the internet to give us a response for our very impressive advice givers here. I have something for my new favorite Twitter account called Depths of Wikipedia. I found this and I really just, come with me on this journey here. I found a list of games that Buddha would not play.
Marquez: [Laughs] Oh, okay.
Mischa: [Laughs] Okay.
Eric: The Buddhist Games List. The, the first blogger apparently was Buddha, is a list of games that Buddha is reputed to have said that he would not play and his disciples should not likewise play because he believed them to be quote, “a cause for negligence.” This list dates back to the sixth or fifth century BC and it's the earliest list of games, a, a list of games that you shouldn't play, which I find very, very funny. Now, I want you to give a recommendation to Buddha, of a game he should play and, from anytime, any type of game, whether it's a video game tables or RPG or a card game or, or laser tag or whatever, but he has quite a number of stipulations.
Mischa: Okay.
Marquez: He should play Elden Ring because existence is suffering. [Mischa laughs] And the whole point of eternal reoccurrence is to git gud.
Mischa: Reincarnation is git gud culture. You heard it here.
Eric: All right. All right. We should, do you have one to start with the Buddha? That Buddha should try?
Mischa: I think that Buddha should play Rocket League because existence is suffering and git gud.
Marquez: Yeah.
Eric: Awesome. Perfect. I love that you've come to Buddha and you're like “Buddha, Here's a different philosophy, the thing your coming up with, you, it doesn't matter. This doesn't matter. It's -” [Laughs] All right. There are 16 here I'll try to whip through them and I hope that you enjoy them. The first thing Buddha says not to do is play games on boards with eight or 10 rows.
Mischa: Oh my, okay. [Laughs]
Marquez: Wait is nine okay?
Eric: Apparently nine is okay. It seems like there were a lot of dice games that had this number of rows, or a kind of like precursor to chess that they were playing at the time and in the area that was specifically like this. However, if you take the board away, that doesn't count, because you can't play the same games on imaginary boards.
Marquez: Also, where does columns fit in? If you have a different number of columns, can't you just flip the board a certain way and then the rows are now no longer that number.
Mischa: That's it Marquez you outsmarted Buddha, good job.
Eric: I love this idea that Marquez is a disciple of Buddha and you go off to the holy, the eminence.
Marquez: Yeah, he's sitting by like a nine by eight board and I just kind of like move it and he just goes, “ah!”
Eric: “That's Marquez the Wise, you don't know that disciple of Buddha? I love that guy.” All right, number three is games of marking diagrams on the floor that so a player can only walk in certain places. It seems like this was referring to a version of hopscotch that they were playing.
Marquez: Oh, yeah.
Mischa: I was gonna say, no hopscotch.
Eric: No hopscotch.
Marquez: I'm, I'm in favor of this rule.
Eric: No. There, there's another game that where players either remove pieces of a pile or add pieces to it, and with the loser being the one who causes the heap to shake. [Marquez laughs]
Mischa: That’s anti-semetic! No dreidel.
Eric: [Laughs] No dreidel, no pick up sticks, No jacks, is what it’s saying.
Mischa: No Jenga!
Marquez: No Jenga?!
Eric: No Jenga. All games are throwing dice are out, no dice. Here's a very specific one, which I don't know what this game is: dipping the hand with the fingers that stretched out into lack red dye or flour water and striking the wet hand on the ground or on the wall and then counting out, what shall it be, and showing the form required. Elephants, horses, etc.
Mischa: That is so much more specific than the other one. [Laughs]
Marquez: That's not a game.
Eric: It's seems like some sort of charades right?
Mischa: Buddha says no hand turkeys.
Marquez: Because you're not you're not guessing what the other person made. You're just kind of like, in our interpretation. He's asking you not to interpret art that you put on the wall.
Mischa: So like, but does that mean like no shadow puppetry?
Eric: Yeah, I assumed it was something like shadow puppetry and charades. Were the two that came to mind of some sort of thing like that.
Marquez: I’m going to put my hand in red paint and slap it against the wall and ask you if it's a bear or something.
Eric: No, Marquez you have to say ‘what shall it be?’
Marquez: What shall it be.
Eric: What shall it be? All ball games are out. No balls. You can't blow through a toy pipe made of leaves. That's bullshit. I didn't know that was a game. But apparently it is.
Marquez: I guess it, since it’s nature? I don't know. I don't know these rules.
Eric: This is, this is what's here. This is a translation from Wikipedia. There are a lot of playing with toy work, like work equipment. So you can't play with a toy plow. You can't play with a toy windmill. You can't play with a toy measure. You can't play with toy carts. And you can't play with toy bows.
Marquez: Well I love toy windmills.
Mischa: So no Mousetrap.
Eric: No Mousetrap. You can't play the game where you trace your finger in the air or on a friend's back and they need to get the letter. I swear to God.
Marquez: I play this game all the time.
Mischa: I used to play this game with my mom when I was a kid, that makes me really sad.
Marquez: Well, Buddha says no!
Eric: Buddha says no.
Mischa: Buddha says no.
Eric: You can't guess a friend's thoughts.
Marquez: [Laughs] So no 20 questions.
Eric: That one links directly to charades. So I don't know why the person who Wikipedia thought that one was guessing a friends thoughts is charades, and the one where you say what shall it be is not.
Mischa: Yeah, what shall it be is also that!
Eric: It’s also that.
Marquez: So like, does the Buddha think that asking someone ‘what am I thinking about right now?’ Is that a game too?
Eric: Apparently, it seems like it. And finally the last one is actually pretty good. And I could see why this was added to the bottom. It's like the Buddha was like, Alright, 15. And then some people did some wack shit, and he had to add it to the bottom. The last one is imitating deformities. And I'm like, Yeah, yeah Buddha.
Mischa: Great, yeah.
Marquez: Good. Good, Buddha. That one's the best one.
Eric: You could see that like everyone was like, alright, we can't play with a ball and then they did something really, really rude and Buddha's like, stop, fucking stop that, I’m putting it on the list. I'm putting it on the games list.
Marquez: You know what, I'm putting no ball games on the list because of that.
Eric: [Laughs] It doesn't say we compete here. But in between six and eight he wrote ballgames really small. [All laugh] All right, we have the things that Buddha can't play. Do y'all have any recommendations for games for Buddha?
Mischa: I have a follow up question.
Eric: Sure.
Mischa: When it says no ball games…
Eric: Yeah.
Mischa: At what size is a ball no longer a ball?
Marquez: That's a great question.
Eric: A great question.
Mischa: Because-
Eric: This is how I DM, is where I say “What are you thinking? Weird questions someone asked me.”
Mischa: So I believe that Chinese checkers actually fulfills all - which is not a Chinese game. So Buddha not knowing about it. It's actually a German game. I looked this up recently. Chinese checkers does not have a board that has eight or 10 rows. It doesn't make you guess people's thoughts. You don't have to walk in a place on the ground. The only thing is do marbles count as balls?
Eric: I don't think so. I think that's a game piece.
Mischa: Okay, then I'm gonna go with Chinese checkers.
Eric: That's good. I think that fulfills all 16, unless the name site is Chinese checkers is like, unless that is overarching.
Mischa: We can call it what they call it in German, which is like star board or something.
Eric: That's fair, because I think that that might be under the umbrella of doing, doing wack shit, I think is what 16 is like, don't be, don't be rude. Don't do, Don't be wack.
Marquez: Candyland?
Eric: That's good. I guess there really is no, because it is all luck, though. And there's nothing specifically about luck.
Marquez: There's dice, but there's not cards.
Eric: Buddha has forbidden dice. But Candyland is done by pulling cards, correct?
Marquez: Yes, so.
Mischa: There's, there's two versions of it. I will say I don't often consider Candyland a game because there's no ability for strategy to affect the outcome, in addition to luck, but also a bunch of stuff that Buddha listed weren’t games neither, so we’re fine.
Eric: A toy pipe is not a game Buddha. Chill dog. He just really, he got really fucking bothered by one of his disciples blowing out a pipe and he's like that's going on the game like
Mischa: “God, would you stop playing that please, stop?!”
Eric: “What, What am I doing?” [Imitates pipe noise] “Up, it’s going on the list!”
Marquez: [Laughing] He was just like, hitting a ball against the wall and catching it. And it was just constant, constant noise.
Eric: He's trying to find enlightenment and hears, kathunk-chh. Kathunk-chh.
Marquez: Also, the Game of Life.
Mischa: That can be good.
Mischa: That’s a good one.
Eric: Oh, but Marquez you know that part where you get a child and then you say what shall it be? I think that’s forbidden.
Marquez: Oh, yeah…
Eric: No one talks about how Milton Bradley was around the time that Buddha was around.
Mischa: [Laughs] You don't remember the time that Milton Bradley went on livestream and slapped paint on his hand and asked what shall it be??
Marquez: What shall it be?!
Mischa: Milton Bradley’s hit game, What Shall it Be?
Marquez: Know what, I've gone around, I think that's the best game on the list. [Eric and Mischa laugh] The best game we've talked about today is, what shall it be?
Eric: [Laughs] It's the fact, it's the fact that he had to list three words.
Marquez: Specific!
Eric: Yeah, he had to list three different liquids being like, “Oh, what if we use water flour instead of red dye, Buddha can’t get mad at me.”
Marquez: You can play with other colored dyes, though.
Eric: That's very true. The trade routes were particularly vibrant, because they were trying to come up with the different colored dyes to get around Buddha.
Marquez: I mean, that's the reason I was kicked out of Buddha's disciples, because I kept, you know, bringing up loopholes to his proclamations and he's like, “you gotta get out of here, man.” [Laughs]
Eric: “Hey, Marquez, I appreciate what you're doing. But if you're more focused on the games than enlightenment, you gotta go.”
Marquez: “Like I only gave these rules secondhand. It's not like my main part of my teaching. Like, I have a whole thing. There's a whole religion based on my teachings, but you're just really focused on the game section.”
Eric: Nothing is funnier to me than someone like, like a high school student looking up Buddha and then getting like sidetracked and finding them. And when like, they go to their world history class. He's like, “Oh, the guy who hated games. Yeah, I know, that guy, I looked him up on Wikipedia.” [Laughs]
Mischa: Listen, Buddha put out an LFG message. And then you show up for game night. And there's all these different rules about what games you can play. You got to find a new playgroup, that's all I’m saying.
Eric: Yup. We're here to have fun, not find enlightenment.
Mischa: We’re here to have fun, Buddha!
Eric: Like oh my god, that was a radical act. That was fucking ridiculous. [Mischa laughs] I appreciate both of you so much for being here. Why don't you tell folks where they can find you on the internet and what you're doing.
Marquez: You can find me, Marquez, on Twitter at MarquezTheGM, where I'm most likely tweeting about X Men.
Mischa: You can find me on Twitter at mischaetc. M-I-S-C-H-A-E-T-C, and you can find my work right here on this podcast because I edit this podcast, baybeee.
Eric: CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP. Please check me out on Twitter at el_silvero. My name if I was a lucha libre wrestler. You can also find the show on Twitter at GamesNFeelings. Like it's the Linens n Things, the n is in there because it was too long for Twitter. If you want to submit a question, the best place to check that out is to go to our website, that is gamesandfeelings.com/questions. And you can support the show by going to patreon.com/gamesandfeelings you can check out those links in the episode description. Thank you so much again, Mischa, Marquez. I'm always going to be having fun and thinking about you when I'm having fun and playing ‘what shall it be?’
Marquez: What shall it be?
Eric: What shall it be??
Mischa: What shall it be?!? [All laugh]
Eric: And remember, the instruction manual doesn't have anything about feelings.
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