Do We Know More than Advice Columnists About Games? with Amanda McLoughlin

If you’re a member of the Games and Feelings Patreon, you’ve heard of the Replay, where we replay and reply to questions about games submitted from the long tradition of advice columnists. And I think we (in this case, Amanda McLoughlin and Eric) know more about games than Ask Abby. So we’re doing The Replay on the main feed because we love doing this so much!


Links

- The Early Autumn of Cheating

- Are My Kids Videogame Addicted? from Dear Abby (Sep 1991)

- What are good games to pick up and put down? from Dear Polygon (2022)

- How to Be a Good Murder Mystery Host on Metafilter

- Is It Ok to Win Chess Bets at Work? from Pay Dirt (2021)


Sponsors

- First Encounter, a video game podcast in which two best friends take turns introducing one another to their beloved, childhood the games


Find Us Online

- ask questions: gamesandfeelings.com/questions

- patreon: patreon.com/gamesandfeelings

- twitter: twitter.com/gamesnfeelings

- insta: instagram.com/gamesnfeelings


Credits

- Host, Producer, & Question Keeper: Eric Silver

- Editor & Mixer: Mischa Stanton

- Music by: Jeff Brice

- Multitude: multitude.productions


About Us

Games and Feelings is an advice podcast about being human and loving all types of games: video games, tabletop games, party games, laser tag, escape rooms, game streams, and anything else that we play for fun. Join Question Keeper Eric Silver and a revolving cast of guests as they answer your questions at the intersection of fun and humanity, since, you know, you gotta play games with other people. Whether you need a game recommendation, need to sort out a dispute at the table, or decide whether an activity is good for a date, we’re your instruction manual. New episodes drop every other Friday.


Transcript

Eric: Hello gamers! This is Games and Feelings, an advice show about playing games, being human and dealing with the fact that those games will involve other humans. I am your host and question keeper Eric Silver. And if I could romance anyone from any video game that is not from a video game that you can romance people, I would romance Daisy from the Mario series. She seems fun. Like the fun you know, kind of like out-there, younger sister to peach. I know they're cousins. I don't know. I just - if you remember when Pippa Middleton was a thing? She has real Pippa Middleton energy. Amanda McLoughlin of life love and podcasting with me, who would you romance from a video game where there's no video game romantic options?


Amanda:  Hold on. I'm looking up what her name is. This is not a good sign. This is not a good sign. [Eric laughs] I want to romance the the lady who works at Nook Inc with Tom Nook in Animal Crossing: New Horizons.


Eric: Is that Isabel?


Amanda: Yes, exactly. It's Isabel. She has a great work-life balance. They do stretches in the town hall. She has great sweaters that change seasonally. And I once saw someone cosplaying as her and I was like, adorable. And I think she would be a really fun sort of comanager of my life.


Eric: She really feels like the power behind the man. 


Amanda: Yeah.


Eric: Like she's the mayor behind the mayor.


Amanda: Oh yeah, give her one wine spritzer and I bet she has a lot of stories about Tom Nook.


Eric: [Laughs] Oh, Tom, you've ever seen Tom out at a Christmas party.


Amanda: Like I don't want to say he has wandering hands but he's definitely - 


Eric: No! Oh no!


Amanda: - like, you know, sort of perhaps instituted some like bonding practices among the office like doing those group stretches where she's like, "Okay, enough, Tom."


Eric: I don't know how I feel but you putting that on Tom Nook. People are already on Tom Nook for being like a, a deep capitalist - 


Amanda: He really is.


Eric: - But all he does is give you a loan with no, no APR. He is a father of sons. [Both laugh]


Amanda: But not of daughters.


Eric: No, he doesn't have any daughters. So he's not, he's not there. He, he doesn't get to excuse all that behavior. Isabel is  a good choice. Isabel is 100, I think I married Isabel. I am marrying Isabel.


Amanda: I'm not marrying Tom Nook though.


Eric: No, I'm not Tom Nook. I don't know who I am. I really try not to be like the weird kooky guy in the life who actually puts it all together. Like I don't want to be that way. But sometimes I feel like I'm actually am that, but like for real? 


Amanda: No - 


Eric: You're not just like a guy who says that so that he doesn't have to like do any of the planning?


Amanda: No, I mean, we're we're partners in life, love, and podcasting, and you are "make a phone call because I'm anxious" guy and I am "fill out a spreadsheet because I find it soothing" lady.


Eric: Because I don't - Yeah, I don't know how to do it. 


Amanda: And I think Eric when I think of you, y'know, you're slack icon of Scott Pilgrim, so that that is definitely on my mind. Also, in my phone, you have the soft serve ice cream emoji in your contact. So I think you're a combination of those two things.


Eric: I don't even know what that means. I don't know what that could be. That makes me feel like I'm an 8-bit hero like, or a 16-bit hero just kind of like jumps through and some sort of side scrolling game.


Amanda: Yeah.


Eric: I was gonna say that I thought I was like the Animal Crossing main character who just like a guy who goes around and pulls up your weeds.


Amanda: You're Erik the Moose. We know this, Erik with a K, the moose. 


Eric: Oh, Erik with a K, from Animal Crossing. 


Amanda: Who loves the alpine region. [Both laugh] And snacks.


Eric: Alright, this is Games and Feelings. We are doing something special today, this is me and Amanda, we are going to be doing a version of what we do on the Patreon, which I have now renamed, is called The Replay, because we replay, reanswer, and requestion questions from advice columns of yore that are about games and they don't know what they're talking about, so that we answer them instead. We have just as many episodes on the Patreon feed of that podcast as we do this podcast, we used to call it The DLC, I'm switching it to The Replay because it makes more sense. I'm super excited about it. And we, you know, we say back to each other, "This is a good podcast, I looking doing it all the time." So I want to do an original episode for the folks in the Games and Feelings feed. But before we do that this is an episode of Games and Feelings. So Amanda, we do need to touch on our first segment, "Games that are giving us feelings." This doesn't have to be a new game. It doesn't have to be a video game. It can be anything in the world of games that we cover here and Games and Feelings that are giving us feelings tell us the game that's giving you feelings and what feelings it's giving you.


Amanda: Well, we went for our flu shot and booster a few weeks ago and saw - you came out of the, you went first, you came out of the room and said to me, "you're gonna like this guy." And I was like what? And I walked in and the guy giving us our vaccines had a Spyro tattoo on his forearm and said "Your fiancee told me you love Spyro" and I was like "oh my god, yes! The Reign-" then at the same time he said "The Reignited Trilogy is so good!" And it was such a lovely moment of bonding because he's like, oh my god every time if anyone ever knows what my tattoo's about, they've never played the Reignited Trilogy knows like, "oh my god, it's so good. It's like my memory but better." And anytime I watch a speedrun or a playthrough of the original Spyro the Dragon games, you know, that's what I played in my childhood but I was six and didn't know about graphics. And I was watching, I was playing it on like a 19 inch, you know, "big TV," like deep TV. So it was so exciting to play the Reignited Remastered Trilogy on Switch because it feels the way my memory of those games do. And they're updated. They're crisp, they're lovely. They're a platformer that can accommodate somebody who's not great at platformers like me, and I have been highly enjoying them. I kind of constantly replay them. And it was very cool to meet somebody who also enjoys them. 


Eric: Just to first touch on, that guy was tight as hell, I think that like people who are shot practiotioners, especially as needed for how important COVID vaccine, like all the people who are administering shots of the various like - vaccine sites is just incredible. So he was, you know, they're always like weird, but you know, they're good at their jobs. Yeah, and he had a massive Spyro tattoo. And he told me he was gonna get more original Playstation figures around it.


Amanda: Oh!


Eric:  He was gonna get a whole sleeve. So he's gonna get like Jak and Daxter on it as well. Because Amanda you love - oh and Crash Bandicoot - because you love the third best PlayStation mascot of the, of the PlayStation One, Two and Three era. I think there's another thing that you hit on was that like you do, too didn't know anyone who had been playing the reignited trilogy. But I was trying to look up how many people bought it is that they said that it outsold Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee when it came out? 


Amanda: Yeah!


Eric: Like two years ago.


Amanda: It's also a bundle. That's all three games. So I mean, a lot of people I think picked it up just to have, I don't know who's playing it or talking about it or like stoked about it because it's a reissue of a game that's like 30 years old. But God it's good.


Eric: I mean, well, those games sold over 6 million copies. 


Amanda: Yeah.


Eric:  So I think that we're talking about like 8 million copies, ish. That's what I'm getting. Just from Googling - I'm on r/Spyro, the Spyro Reddit, and like that's kind of what they're supposing it was over 6 million, maybe around seven or eight. And like, a lot of people are playing it, but like, how often do you run into someone in person who's playing the same game that you love?


Amanda: Yeah, it was it was way more than that. I know what that title was about. Like, he was so stoked that I specifically was like "Did you play the Reig-", and he was like "The Reignited!" Like he was so excited. He's like, "Oh, my girlfriend lost my Switch. But like, I'm trying to get her to play it." And I was like, "Oh, God," I was like "I dropped my Switch in the bath." [Eric laughs] And then he was like, giving me my omicron juice. So you know, it was just it was a great experience.


Eric: [Laughs] Like, I got, I got thrown off by you saying 'omicron juice.' And then I was like you have 5G Wi Fi, you can connect your Switch Lite to so you always have it, but it's in your body now. 


Amanda: Mhm, yeah.


Eric: I think it's really great. This is something about the question that we asked a while ago of like, how do you tell people you like games other than like, wearing like a gamer t-shirt? 


Amanda: Exactly. 


Eric: You know what I mean? I think that the tattoo is, might be the move.


Amanda: Yeah. Or in the tradition of bisexuals everywhere, just enamel pins on the jacket. 


Eric: Exactly.


Amanda: We're getting into denim jackets season aka "everybody knows that I'm a bisexual against white supremacy" and the various other like pop culture signifier buttons and pins that I have.


Eric: That's very good. So what feeling are you getting from this game?


Amanda: I'm getting nostalgia and bonding and also excitement and recognition that somebody else appreciates these games. Like I said, when I play them, I feel like challenge like I'm growing, like I'm trying to 100% the games right now, which is a real challenge for me because I hate those mini games, man they're so hard. So I feel like I'm stretching myself while also kind of dwelling in a sort of familiar, you know, zone, a familiar home, and something that reminds me of being you know, five or six years old sitting in my basement playing this on a tiny, tiny, TV. 


Eric: Hell yeah, I love that. I realized that now this section of "games give me feelings." Remember at the bottom of Live Journal posts, where you had to say what you were feeling?


Amanda: Oh, I sure do. 


Eric: Like that's what - I'm like, that's what we're doing!


Amanda: What is giving you feelings?


Eric: So what's giving me feel the feeling I'm getting is like, is it doom? Or is it cynicism? Amanda? Do you know about the rash of cheating scandals that's been happening in pro and semi pro game - I wouldn't say leagues because it's not sports, but like game associations?


Amanda: Tournaments? I have heard about the chess and the poker scandals. 


Eric: Okay, yeah, so there are four that's happening. 


Amanda: Oh, really?


Eric: We're at four.


Amanda: I heard about the anal beads and, and the like, you know, the supposed poker one involving a former survivor player.


Eric: Oh, yeah. Okay. Yes, yes, yes. Which makes it even even more wild. Okay. So let me give a summary of these four that I'm talking about. Because I have one, there's chess, there's poker, there's fishing, and now there's one that came out today that I'm not gonna say, I'm saving it for you. I'm not gonna bring it up. 


Amanda: Ooh.


Eric: So I want to just touch on like, why, there is so much cheating and people are getting caught cheating. I think like this also kind of ties to, I mean, we talk about content and the creation of content on Games and Feelings a lot. This is also tied to like Ned from Try Guys, Adam Levine, wife guys who are getting exposed for being that even though that's like their brand, I think is similar. Okay, so the chess thing is that there's this upstart kid who played a grandmaster. This guy, Hans Neiman denied rumors that he used a vibrating sex toy in order to show you that he's using, he gets like, coded moves through vibrations of the sex toy against World Champion Magnus Carlsen. And that's huge. And the Magnus Carlsen made a whole stink about it. It's also complicated because the website that runs these tournaments, chess.com has like long records of this guy, Hans, cheating, but also they're trying to buy the chess app that Carl's Magnussen is doing as well. So it's all very messy.


Amanda: Oh, boy.


Eric: Like regardless of who is or is not cheating and how easy it is to cheat either in person or online, which is tied to the poker one that we're going to talk about how complicated that is, but there's still money flying everywhere. The poker one - so this guy who is this professional poker player who is on Survivor got beat in a poker hand by this woman named Robbie J. Liu, who looks like a woman who does professional poker, whatever you might envision that in your head. 


Amanda: Yeah.


Eric: She like won a call that she shouldn't, she won a hand of poker that she had absolutely no way to do, like she went all in, she called the he is all in bet, when she had absolute nothing. And like it was very confusing, and no one understood why she couldn't explain why she did it. She said she thought she had a card that she didn't but it didn't make any sense. And she won. She took the $269,000 pot.


Amanda: Nice. 


Eric: And so she took it but then people thought she was cheating because the guy who was on Survivor - who was on Survivor, whose a professional poker player was like, "What the fuck is happening?" Because it's suspicious, but also there's luck. 


Amanda: Right.


Eric: She might have just lucked into it. Basically, he accused her of cheating. And he apparently, he's a very like placid guy, so usually he's not someone who pops off like this. And then she paid him back, because she didn't like that it was happening. But she still says that she wasn't cheating. And she wasn't getting like vibrations - another vibration thing - from like a ring $100,000 ruby ring she has, or like some sort of device she put in her tights. That's another thing. Okay, the third thing is the thing about fish in an Ohio fishing tournament. Some cheaters put weights and fish filets in their fish. This is freshwater fishing.


Amanda: No!


Eric: So you, they just do it by weight. They do, they don't do it by length.


Amanda: Whoa!


Eric: You know like when you get up marlin and like you hang it out. 


Amanda: Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Eric: So in this Ohio fishing tournament, it was in a lake. So they do it by weight. They put weights and then they use, they put fish filets between the weights to keep the weights from clanking together. [Amanda gasps] And they got, and there was a video of the guy being like, "There's weights in this fish!" [Amanda laughs] These guys who have cheated and they're exposed. 


Amanda: Oh, god.


Eric: Here's the new one that broke today. This is from Jezebel: "an Irish dancing scandal -"\


Amanda: [Yelling] Noooo!


Eric:  " - is the latest of our season of cheating. The Irish Dancing Commission is investigating text messages sent over the summer between judges and teachers discussing fixing the feis, the feisanna" - this is what happens when you try to inject English into non-English languages - "aka rigging the dance competitions, between this a competitive fishing scandal that has led to felony charges, a chess champion accused of covert anal bead communication, and a ruby ring at the center of a contested poker match, early fall has been the season of the alleged cheat." I don't understand this. There is so much cheating going on at the same time. Overwatch 2 is having massive problems, and Overwatch just seems like a rework of a, of like an update just to Overwatch 1 but they shut down the Overwatch 1 servers. It's like remember when there was the season of the scam? 


Amanda: Yeah. 


Eric: When that was good, but it was like uplifting because it was someone getting, getting like -


Amanda: Getting one over on the man.


Eric: Getting one over on the man. This feels like something else. Like people realize there's no decorum anymore. I know a lot of people said this about Trump, how like Trump reinforced you can kind of do whatever you want and no one going to call you on it.


Amanda: Sure, and like the planet's melting, like just get, get mine while you can get it, like I think that's kind of my thesis statement number one, but I do have a second idea. 


Eric: This is more like fixing!


Amanda: Yeah.


Eric: It's like the it's like the people who are supposed, quote unquote, 'supposed to win'in actual regular competition are getting exposed for cheating because people aren't even doing it that well, much like Trump. And like I hate we're still talking about him in 2022.


Amanda: Yeah.


Eric: But like that's what it feels like. I don't want to be like 'society is crumbling,' but I can't believe all these people are getting exposed and caught. Maybe it's that we like exposing cheaters?


Amanda: Yes. 


Eric: I think that's also a part of the internet, and like good fuck these cheaters. But I, it's a real, a real confusing feeling to feel that like games are being upended like this.


Amanda: I think that's definitely true. And also, like, at least people, you know, of our generation, like late 20s, early 30s, kind of like mid, mid age millennials. Like we love hobby drama, right? 


Eric: Yes we do.


Amanda: Like we love a scandal - 


Eric: I follow, I am on the hobby drama - 


Amanda: Hobby drama subreddit, yeah.


Eric: Yeah.


Amanda: It's one of the first ones I ever followed. I've been a loyal reader for years.


Eric: Have you, did you read though the World of Warcraft ones? They're so good.


Amanda: Yeah, the WoW ones are some of my favorites. 


Eric: Yeah. 


Amanda: And like kids sports leagues are also extremely good. But, you know, I think we, we like this kind of story. We sort of know all the ways in which big institutions are corrupt and not supposed to fail us. Like it's not a revelation for us to learn these things. And so the stuff that's genuinely like, surprising and shocking is not the huge facts of you know, the carceral state, like all all kinds of depressing and just like, we take it for granted stuff. It's these small things of like, "you didn't have to do this my guy." That's the thing that gives us a little bit of like, you know, satisfaction as I read. But my hypothesis, Eric, is that, okay, so 2020 only irresponsible jerks made events. Right? 


Eric: Right. 


Amanda: 2021 some people optimistically did an event when they shouldn't, right? 2022, shit is fucking back. And I think that people are wiling out. And they either want to, like maintain a streak or they're nervous and out of practice and want to maintain their edge or they're just like losing their inhibitions. So they went to their first ones, you know, post lockdown in 2021 and now this time, they're filled with false confidence.


Eric: I think that each one of these have like different cheating, though, like the Irish dance one seems like fixing, while the chess one and the fishing one is a very informed person, whether the Grandmaster, Magnus Carlsen, or the judge of the fishing competition, expose them, expose this guy for cheating. And then this one with the poker is just really confusing, because like the guy who lost, he's not a good guy, either. He got voted off like immediately on Survivor, if I remember correctly.


Amanda: He's some kind of blowhard. And like the guy that yells. 


Eric: Yeah, like he's kind of - like he, I think maybe he's been trying to change his brand. Because something I've been reading a lot about the poker thing is that like, "he doesn't pop off. He's very placid. He takes like, when people try to rile him up, he just takes it." So maybe he's trying to be a placid guy - 


Amanda: I heard of this news on a Survivor podcast where the guys were like, "oh, yeah, fuck that guy. Like, he's, he's always like that." So yeah, he's probably trying to change his image. And I mean, that one, I hate, because clearly, she was like, intimidated by this guy. You know - 


Eric: I don't know, she was being really weird - 


Amanda: - in like a hallway he was like, "give me the money back." So either she's, she knows she did something wrong. Or she in the moment thought it was easier to do that than to, than to insist she didn't do anything wrong. Both ways made it much worse for herself.


Eric: Right, exactly. She thought it would go away if she gave the money back. Because like, I don't know if she did it or not. At this point, I think that it wasn't cheating. I think she just lucked, she got incredibly freakin lucky. 


Amanda: And people hate that. 


Eric: And people hate it. It's really confusing. So I don't know, all these cheating scandals. On top of the stuff that's happening with the Try Guys and with Adam Levine and all this stuff, it's like I guess people are getting exposed, which is good. That's better. Like, the thing that I think about a lot is like, I don't know if the world is getting like 2,000% worse. I think it's getting like worse if climate change and all this stuff gets ignored blah, blah, blah. But I think like we just know about more - 


Amanda: Definitely.


Eric: - than we ever have. So maybe like more people are informed so they're exposing cheating and like at least we just get to like sip our tea a little bit and like eat the drama, you know?


Amanda: Yeah. And also like, remember how in spring of 2020, everyone got bad mayors or everyone's mayors were revealed to be terrible. Everyone's -


Eric: What?


Amanda: Mayors, like Lori Lightfoot, Bill de Blasio, like all the mayors, yeah,


Eric: Oh, mayors! You're saying mayors, I'm like, "what? Like, is there, like a horse scandal? I didn't know that."


Amanda: Oh, no-no-no, the mayor - 


Eric: The mayor.


Amanda: - of various cities where everyone was fucking up.


Eric:  Oh, yeah. That guy G, Gavin Newsom. 


Amanda: Yeah. And yeah, like everything was so chaotic that we just, you know, we'd like move past that. And like politics we expect them fuckup. We don't expect fishing tournaments to fuck up.


Eric: I know. I think it's just funny how these little small things. And now there's like a thing that is, this is cheating. The Fall of Cheating. It's just very funny. So I'm just like, I feel weird. And maybe this is some doom and cynicism in it. But also, I'm loving the drama. I do. I truly do love the drama.


Amanda: Well, Eric, would you like to revisit some of the drama brought to advice columnists of yore throughout the internet, throughout time?


Eric: I would love this. Yeah, let's let's rip it up. So again, these are advice columns that Amanda has researched. These are real things that have been published on the internet before. We are going to include all the questions in the episode description, as well as that Jezebel article I just read from about the Irish dancing. And it's linked out to all the other scandals that we've talked about in that article. So you can read along with us and we're going to give good advice as games people, people who've been professionally playing games for years. Hopefully we can do better than whoever gets designated to write advice columns. What was the funniest one? When someone didn't know what MMORPG stood for? That was really funny.


Amanda: Well, Eric, I thought I would begin with a classic here. And so something we've been calling - 


Eric: A class-ique?


Amanda: Yeah, in, in The Replay is going back to like, what, what kind of games related questions were being asked in the nineties, man? That's what I really want to know. And so I have here a question for you from Dear Abby, perhaps the prototypical advice column of the US. From September 1991. When I was a half term, baby, not, not, not quite here in the world and you were a rowdy five months old.


Eric: Yeah.


Amanda: Showing your brother up and out. This is a question to Dear Abby. It says "Dear Abby, last Christmas we purchased a video game for our sons, ages eight and ten."


Eric: Whoa, someone bought a video game in 1991? That's impressive.


Amanda: In December of 1990.


Eric: Oh, wow. 


Amanda: "At first it was fun. But now I'm sick of the hours wasted in front of the television."


Eric: [Laughing] Oh nooo!


Amanda: "If the boys aren't playing it their father is, and the arguments and hurt feelings are not worth the money invested. We used to go to the parks and the beaches or just spend time barbecuing after work."


Eric: What?!? [Laughing] Okay, okay.


Amanda: "Now it's 'what game should we rent tonight?' Followed by an evening of no communication. I swear they're addicted to it. Am I wrong? Has this happened in other households?" Also, signed 'Mad at the video game in Lacey, Washington.'


Eric: Oh my god. Yeah. "Oh, my son is playing Super Mario World. And now he doesn't want to go to the beach anymore." [Amanda laughs] Come on! Are you really sure did get like 'video games are ruining the minds of children' as early as possible. Yeah, I don't know where to go with this is, this one feels very cut and dry. Here's - this is, it's funny. Like this was before video games were allowed to be a hobby. 


Amanda: Yes. 


Eric: This is no different than any other indoor activity. And there is no way that - [Laughs] no one said, "Hey, hey, Harold, would you want to fire up the grill after work? 'No, no can do. I gotta beat Sonic and Knuckles before, before I have to go back to work tomorrow. Figure out your own food, wife.'" Like I, you, that's, that's just not happening.


Amanda: I think that Dear Abby agreed with you, Eric, because she wrote "You're not wrong. But who makes the rules at your house? You should allow your sons to play their game -"


Eric: Hold on, no no no no. [Laughing] I don't think Dear Abby agrees with me!


Amanda: No, listen!


Eric: Dear Abby's like, "Yeah, video games are a scourge. But here's what you can do. You can tell them to stop."


Amanda: All she was saying is set a limit, figure it out and give it to them as a reward after doing homework and chores like, like any hobby, it doesn't matter.


Eric: I just think, I just - can you go back to the question of what they're losing out on for video games? [Amanda laughs] Because that's the thing that bothers me.


Amanda: Yes, it was parks, beaches, and barbecuing, you know, wholesome American activities.


Eric: What? Are they just sitting inside? Yeah, they're sitting inside for 24 to 48 hours in a row playing, playing some game on the SNES. And just not talking to each other. Like, what do you mean no communication? I'm sorry that you're, you're huffing and puffing behind them in the kitchen while they're playing a video game with like, "I wish you weren't playing this video game." And they're like, "Yeah, I'm trying to, I'm winning right now. I rented the Lion King, and it's really difficult." I don't know. It sounds like they got ahead of the video game trend. And everyone likes it except for question asker.


Amanda: My question is, Eric, what is the dad playing now? So the dad had, you know, an eight and ten year old in 1990 - or a seven and nine year old, you know, whatever, assuming averages. He's probably, probably 40 at the time, probably 70 now. Think he's still playing games? 


Eric: Oh, probably.


Amanda: Hope so.


Eric: I bet he's playing like well, he's only like into one game. Like he only plays The Witcher 3.


Amanda: Like a Wii, right, like a Wii Fitness. Maybe like really into like bowling on Wii. 


Eric: Oh, he, they probably still have a Wii. Yeah, for sure. 


Amanda: Yeah. 


Eric:  Well, I wonder. Yeah, I wonder by the time that they moved out, it was probably in the 2000s. But I wonder if he's like a gamer dad? I don't know. Like someone who got into the hobby later, and then kept on with it. Because it's interesting. I wonder if he like, bought it himself or his children then kind of bought his own thing. I liked the idea that he, his children bought him like an Xbox 360 or a PS4. And now he only plays like one game on it. And it has like 1000 hours in Skyrim or something. Like he's only playing one game and playing it perpetually. 


Amanda: Yeah.


Eric: He got it. You got to just like keep doing it. Maybe he plays cooperatively, maybe he has a sick PC rig.


Amanda: It's possible! Yeah, we don't know.


Eric: I think we talk about a lot about who are the people who write in to advice questions. 


Amanda: Yeah, if you join the Patreon that is a theme you'll notice throughout The DLC.


Eric: Like who are these people, like just talk to your family. 


Amanda: Yeah.


Eric: Because of the nuclear family unit here, is she worried that she's gonna come off as like, annoying person? Because it seems like she's like the person who, who in the No Fun Police. Is that why she's writing into Dear Abby, because she wants reinforcement so she'll, she'll do it? Or, or the mom's gonna come down and be like, "you could - go outside" and they're gonna be like "Mom, you suck. You're the worst."


Amanda: I think predigital advice columns really functioned as sort of enforcers of the like heteropatriarchy. [Laughs] And so it's sort of like a release valve for, you know, like there's a lot of assumptions here, like the, you know, the letter writer is you know, like a heterosexual mom whose like husband, you know, doesn't listen to her and is like slacking off with the kids, like you were saying earlier. And so I think, you know, it's sort of a matter of last resort where you can write into another older lady and be like, "it's not just me, right?" And she's like, "ain't it true, Sister," you know, and like, gives you some validation, one, perhaps two, practical tips, a lot of questions are like, "how do I like deftly stop my mother in law from like, annoying me so much," or whatever. And it's sort of like a way to get at conflict while getting around conflict and like not addressing it directly. But yes, in this case, it's the real like, "it's not me, right?" And then you get to point to the newspaper and say, Look, honey, it's in the newspaper. We gotta, we got to do this.


Eric: "Whoever else is having this video game problem, not me." 


Amanda: Yes.


Eric: Because it's anon-a-moose. [Both laugh] I am an anon-a-moose. It's this, someone else having this problem? We got to, we have to take the video game system away. I don't know. I just think this is blowing it out so much out of proportion. Again, this is barely an advice question. It's like, "do you also agree with me that this is bad?" And Dear Abby says, "Yes, I think this is bad." Like, there's barely any advice here. Like, do you also, what was the end of the, end of the question?


Amanda: It was "I swear they're addicted to it. Am I wrong? Is this happening in other households also?"


Eric: "Am I wrong? Has this also happened to the other household?" That's barely a question. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry, 'Video game in Washington.' Get out of here.


Amanda: Well, let's then pivot to a really contemporary question. This is from, Eric - Dear Polygon. 


Eric: Whoa!


Amanda: A new column. This question is from 2022, where Polygon asks their staff, this was from July, but like, you know, they ask all their staff members to answer questions from a letter writer. So you don't just get the one sort of like advice monolith answer, which I think was really interesting.


Eric: No, I like that a lot. Instead of just like one person who who may or may not have video game experience, so they're doing similar things. Cool.


Amanda: So this question is "Dear Polygon. I'm a 30 year old with a full time office job."


Eric: Ugh, aren't we all.


Amanda: "On the side, I also draw a webcomic. And I'm trying to develop a potential career in digital art."


Eric: Ugh, aren't we all. [Laughs]


Amanda: "Playing video games is one of my favorite ways to unwind after a busy day. But the problem is, when I get into a game, I really get into it. I have limited free time, and my obsession with the game can crowd out the activities that are more important to me like working on my art. Obviously, some of this can be solved by working on my own time, blindness and willpower. But I'd still like to know, can you recommend some games that are easier than others to step away from? And do you have any strategies for pacing yourself when playing new games?" Signed, Lost in the Lands Between.


Eric: Oooh, this is -


Amanda: This is a good question, yeah.


Eric: This is a very good question and incredibly thorny and irrelevant, because the thing that they're asking, I think that what they maybe want more, is "how do I give myself permission to play games instead of doing my side hustle?"


Amanda: Yeah.


Eric: Oh god. This is, this is really, really resonant. This is tough. First of all, I'd say - no, because I don't want to tell anyone that like, no just play your video games. Why is it so bad that you need to drop them off? But I see why you needing to put all of your time and effort into your webcomic so you can leave your office job is the most important thing to question asker, and like I get, I get this. The premise of the question does hurts me really deeply.


Amanda: No, I know. And you can really approach it from two different angles right? There's the sort of like creative hustle, you know, advice sphere, where probably the advice that they'll get most often, because I read a lot of this when I was podcasting alongside my finance job, is like 'get up earlier, do it first, do it in the morning, like pay yourself first, do your work first,' which can be useful if that's the thing you really want to prioritize.


Eric: But getting up earlier is no different than 'do it after work.' Like you, it's just moving the time.


Amanda: It's just moving time around. 


Eric: Yeah.


Amanda: But I did really like, I think the the second way that you can look at this is a game recommendation question, of what makes a game easy to put down? And what do you recommend that they get into, the question asker, if they want to be able to step away and not feel super engrossed in a game?


Eric: Yeah, I mean, roguelikes, right?


Amanda: Yeah.


Eric: Like ones that you do multiple, multiple runs. And you just make a little bit of progress every so often, I want to recommend my favorite roguelike, Enter The Gungeon, of which I've put so many hours into, but if you get going, it's very difficult, one, so you might feel like you're wasting your free time by learning a hard game, which is, which is tough. And the second thing is when you really get going some roguelikes go for hour long rounds. So I know that there are plenty that have shorter ones. There are also like puzzle games, you can kind of pick up or put down. I actually just bought an adventure game, like a point and click adventure game. That I've really been enjoying, The Secret of Monkey Island. I'm gonna buy the new thing that just came out, The Return to Monkey Island, which is like a remake of that. So a point and click adventure might actually be pretty good because you can just hit the hint button to remind you what you were doing and where you're at, in terms of like orienting yourself when you pick it up and put it down. So roguelikes, point and click adventure games. You can just play Putt Putt, like all that stuff is on Steam, all those Humongous Entertainment games are on Steam. If you just want something to turn your brain off, just run through all the Putt Putt games, and point and click your way in as fast as possible. Yeah, those are my recommendations. What did Polygon say?


Amanda: Polygon's Nicole Carpenter, @sweetpotatoes on Twitter, was the person giving me advice on this one and really recommended open world games, things like Pokemon Legends: Arceus, where you can like do an outing, right? Like do a little mission, like do one checkpoint, one thing and then save and quit?


Eric: See, I don't know if I agree with that. Do you agree with that? Because I feel like the issue that I was addressing in the pointing click adventure game, I get so disoriented playing RPGs that I don't remember what the fuck I was doing. You - that's why people play these games for 10 hours at a time. Because they don't want to pick it, they don't want to drop it and lose their momentum.


Amanda: I find it most easy, like, for Arceus I would say the first you know, like eight to 10 hours of the game. Like you really have to follow the story progression. But once you sort of unlock everything and get all the tools, you can just sort of, you know, go out on fulfilling the 100, you know, missions or checkpoints that you have to do. That I think makes a lot of sense. Where you know, you pick it up, you do one mission, you look up a guide, right? Like you go out on one sort of round and like get a bunch of Pokemon then come back, I see it or something even like Stardew Valley that has a sort of like time setting, where like a day in Stardew Valley lasts about, I think like, 15 minutes. And so it's really easy to like play one day, set down, come back to it. I think the advantage to open world games is you know, you have your menu, you have a reminder of things you were doing. And you can just kind of pick it up and put it down whenever you need.


Eric: Okay, but everyone who's ever played Skyrim before - [Amanda laughs] loads up a save, and you're in the bowels of some dungeon and you look at your quest, and it's like, "go pick up the Golden Claw of Zeraxius," and you're like, I have no idea where that is. I don't, I have no idea where I am. I picked, I played this two days ago, and I cannot remember what's happening.


Amanda: No it's true. I mean, Nicole's first recommendations were Citizen Sleeper and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle: Shredders Revenge. 


Eric: Oh, yeah, scroller for sure. 


Amanda: Both of which have like, you know, 10 minute-ish levels and are really easy to kind of jump into and out of in between tasks. I do, I'm doing Yoshi's Crafted World right now. I started playing it again recently after trialing it a little bit when it first came out. And yeah, those levels take, you know, like 6, 7, 8 minutes and really easy to do in between other things.


Eric: Yeah, I wonder if the question here, if we're doing the games recommendation side here, is the question like, do you want to feel fulfilled or challenged? Or do you just want to play a game, that you are just keeping your hands and mind busy until you go to sleep? Which is my Putt Putt recommendation, I would also have recommended, like, I'm playing Bloons right now. [Amanda laughs] Bloons 6, which is just like a tower defense game. And I listen to podcasts while I do it. I value games where I get to listen to podcasts while I do it, because I just want to like, go do something for a little bit. And I think there's nothing more - There's nothing wrong with that, of just being able to like turn your brain off, especially if you're someone who has a full time job and makes art and you just want to like do something else. 


Amanda: Totally.


[Segment Transition Music]


Eric: Hey, it's Eric. And I picked up some snacks for the middle of Games and Feelings. I got hot apple cider. It's in a thermos. You want some whiskey? I got this flask, you can just add it. It's good. Mmm. I think you should be a part of the Patreon at patreon.com/gamesandfeelings. I haven't had a chance to check out the new patrons because I'm currently getting married. But this whole episode is one big Patreon plug because we love doing The Replay, Amanda and I, it's a lot of fun. We talk about work. We talk about all the things that we've learned from being games people for 30 plus years, and I think you'll really enjoy it. So if you like this episode, come on over to the Patreon. You're gonna love it. And thank you again to producer level patron Polly Burridge, who has great recommendations of board game cafes and bars in her local area that she will be happy to recommend.  

If you need more games content, I think you should check out one of the other shows that are part of the Multitude collective like Join the Party. Join the Party is an actual play podcast with tangible worlds, genre pushing storytelling and collaborators who make each other laugh every single week. DM Eric and emphatic players, Amanda, Brandon and Julia welcome everyone to the table from longtime tabletop RPG players to folks who've never touched a role playing game before. Not sure where to start? Well you can hop into the Camp-aign, which is our Monster of the Week story set at a weird and wild summer camp that we're wrapping up right now. Or marathon our Dungeons and Dragons games with campaign two for a modern day comic book superpower story, or campaign one for a high fantasy epic. Whatever adventure you choose, we invite you to hang out with us each month for our After Party, a session held to discuss campaigns, joke around, and answer your questions. So what are you waiting for? Pull up a chair and join the party! Search for Join the Party in your podcast app or go to jointhepartypod.com.

We are sponsored this week by the podcast First Encounter. Much like Amanda and I had a 20 year long friendship before we finally got together, first encounter is born out of the same. Haney had never played Chris's favorite game, Final Fantasy 7 for 20 years. So Chris asked him to experience it and turn it into content. And now boom, that's how you make a podcast. Each season has one of the host picking a beloved video game the other hasn't played before, and the person who loves that game, walking the other through it. Season One covers Final Fantasy 7, season two which they're currently on covers Chris's first experience playing through the Legend of Zelda: Majoras mask. Oh, great game. Chris and Haney are devoted to building a community of safety and inclusion. They want to connect listeners by sharing the joy and magic of new video game experiences. And I'm not just reading this because one time Haney he traded me a game of Super Mario Sunshine. I truly believe it that this is a good podcast you're gonna enjoy if you love both games, and feelings. You can find all of their socials and contact info at firstencounterpodcast.com. And they're everywhere that podcasts are found. First Encounters: Friendship! also games. And now back to the games.


[Chiptune Chirp]


Amanda: Speaking of questions that are posed to big groups of people, asks Polygon to the Polygon staff. I went into, Eric, one of my - let's say, hmm, a discerning man's reddit: Metafilter. [Eric laughs] Do you know about Metafilter?


Eric: 'The discerning man's Reddit?' 


Amanda: Yeah.


Eric: That feels like what someone says about Reddit.


Amanda: No, it's Metafilter!


Eric: The discerning man's Reddit is my Reddit account.


Amanda: No the discerning man's Reddit is Metafilter! 


Eric: Oh my god.


Amanda: Do you know what Metafilter is?


Eric: No, I do not.


Amanda: So, pre-Reddit, it cost $5 to join it, and so it is, it is paywalled and pride themselves on being like 'ahaha, a thinking man's' you know, internet forum. Like they - listen there are -


Eric: Is pre-Reddit a [Laughs] is pre-Reddit when you read the Spark Notes, and you pretend that you read it?


Amanda: Yes, exactly. 


Eric: You read a book. 


Amanda: And so it functions just like, just like Reddit, really. But the community is smaller and have a lot more thoughts about how community should go on the internet.


Eric: [Laughs] The face you made when you said that. Hnnnng. You're trying to do that at the same time as you're saying something. That's very funny.


Amanda: They also like so, I mean, listen, Reddit is a vast - it's not useful to characterize Reddit as a whole because every subreddit is like its own thing. And so like a well moderated subreddit, there are a lot of rules like they you know, you have to look at the past before you ask questions to make sure your question hasn't been answered already. And so it's really self selecting for like very thoughtful questions like people really think and look before asking a question. And so every time it comes up, it's like, "oh, this is a new and interesting question." So I have a few from Ask Metafilter. Their, their like Ask Reddit, you know, subreddit that I want to put to you.


Eric: Please. 


Amanda: So one from 2016 that I really loved is titled "How to Be a Good Murder Mystery Host." [Eric laughs] I thought you'd have fun with this one. 


Eric: On the thinkin' man's reddit! Yeah, sure.


Amanda: "We're having a murder mystery party this weekend. And I'm acting as the host, I need some advice." They got a package from a place that sells like murder mystery packages. They are facilitating it. And the person says, "my first question is the games require some thinking outside the box and encouraging players to try new things. How do I respond to potentially ridiculous or game breaking requests? I'd rather avoid to saying no outright to people. Is there a way to allow people to attempt sort of silly things and still keep the game together? The instructions for example, say that if someone tries to set the house on fire, and you respond by telling the player the curtains are fireproof, right, like it's a way to say like, Ah, good idea, but doesn't work right now." But the question asker would like to give people the option to like, try setting the house on fire and then punish them instead, where you know, they might like set yourself on fire or lose your jacket or whatever. And then it's like, is this a terrible idea? And then the second question was, "there are some non-obvious actions that aren't explicitly called out in the character info sheets that I feel are pretty necessary for the successful resolutions of the game. But the instructions say not to explicitly tell the players that they can do these actions. Instead, you want to reward people that figure it out early, and prevent a stampede of everyone trying to do those things all at once. I need a subtle way to encourage people to explore and try new things. How do I do that without coming right out and saying that people should consider doing a particular thing?"


Eric: Okay, I have a question for you. As you hang out in plays on the internet where people throw murder mystery parties, and I don't. 


Amanda: Yes.


Eric: She's - I need to not, this is the thinking man's Reddit. This is - 


Amanda: Yes. This was posted by 'backseatpilot' and had no, no like fun question moniker which we sometimes will assign people in The Replay. So feel free.


Eric: If we're going to do an advice podcast, I need to start saying 'question asker.' So question asker is asking questions  I've heard on Dungeons and Dragons, Reddits and things, which is like, how do I encourage people to do things outside the box? And also, how do I discourage people from doing things that are not appropriate? Can you say I want to set the house on fire in a murder mystery thing? Because you're living, you're in the house. That's what I'm saying is the difference between playing a video game or a tabletop RPG is that you are an avatar? If you are not truly in that space? Do people actually do that?


Amanda: I don't know. I haven't attended one.


Eric: Because I - Oh, I felt like you in your, like your cool ladies Internet that you've been at, people have thrown murder mystery parties before.


Amanda: No, I've never I've never been to one. So I actually don't know. 


Eric: I wonder if this person is like, overblown in the idea that like the people who are there are going to either be in character, or they're going to try to set the house on fire, which feels like a thing that you only say to like, throw a wrench in the plan? Like, I don't know, like, first question about, how do I not say no, but instead punish people? No, just say no.


Amanda: Yeah.


Eric: You're, you're, this is the boundary of the game we're playing. In terms of point and click, you know how in point and click adventures how like you have a thing in your inventory. And then you can like drag it to a place and then the character on screen goes. "I don't think that should go there."


Amanda: Exactly. 


Eric: That's what that's for. But because you're trying to do a puzzle, instead of like, 'play in the space,' which is a tabletop RPG thing. And it's like, are we role playing? Are we trying to make a puzzle? That is the, that is what I'm trying to figure out here of what this murder mystery is? Their intention is, and I know, it's a little bit of both. But again, like you got to set the parameters of what you're doing. So being like, "tch, you can't do that, because the police, you'll get called on by the police and you'll get arrested."


Amanda: Yeah, I think it's ideally supposed to be a mix of, you know, role playing and sort of puzzle solving. And like the first comment, for example, which has one favorite, that's the upvote, of Metafilter.


Eric: [Laughing] Thank you, thank you. It's someone thinking with, with a monocle.


Amanda: Exactly.


Eric: "Hmm, hmm, quite."


Amanda: Draws a parallel to D&D and said like, yes, like somebody, you know, someone had a robe of useful items in their campaign and tried to, like keep pulling, you know, imaginative, like absurd things out of it. And so instead of just saying, No, the commenter just made it into a skill check. And like, you know, you can find a way to kind of moderate it in a way. But all the other comments were like, listen, like, it's gonna be fine. You know, they've played this specific game, the instruct, like players will be busier than they expect was another comment.


Eric: Yes. 100% true. 


Amanda: And someone else was like, especially regarding hints, you know, think of a timeline, if you start at seven, and then it's like, 11 o'clock, and they're not close, just like give it, like, it's okay to give a hint, it's okay to give a heavy handed hint, even. And they'll be like, Ah, yes, I did solve it on my own with no help.


Eric: This is what we talked about in Join the Party a lot when I give DMing advice. I'm like, Oh, just don't tell people what your notes are. No one knows. This is this is a theater thing. This is a life thing of like, don't tell people you mess up, just move it along. Now, no one knows unless you talk about it later. Or you say it explicitly, that they're not doing the right thing. In terms of encouragement of verbs, I think, like game verbs is what we're talking about here, another in a point and click adventure. I don't know if you remember these really old ones. But there was literally a list of verbs that you're allowed to do with stuff like in Monkey Island, and pick up, open, give, close, etc. So I wonder, I, they're being very, question asker is being very vague about this. But I think the whole point of a murder mystery is parallel thinking, like we're doing puzzies. We're doing riddies and puzzies! I think people are ready to think outside the box. And if they need a hint, give them a hand. 


Amanda: Yeah, I think it's a great, great point.


Eric: Like, that's the whole point of being, you get to pretend you're Sherlock Holmes for a second, right? 


Amanda: Yeah!


Eric: You got to think outside of the box. I think they all - Yeah, this is also another thing about reading something before it goes out. Like a murder mystery is no different than a pre written Dungeons and Dragons campaign, right? It's like, they're trying to think of all the possibilities, but it really does not come alive until the people inhabit it. I say a lot that your notes when you're running a tabletop RPG game, it's like building a house. But you cannot control what, what happens in the house until people move in. And then it's alive. It's a home. And this is similar, this person is trying to control the house before the people move in. And again, the only thing you have to do is that if it's getting late, you got to move things along. That's all you have to do. And then you can all gripe about how the game is bad later if it actually was written badly.


Amanda: Exactly. You're together in a project of fun, you are not against the facilitator. Like they didn't even write it, like you said, you know, the person who's hosting is opening up their house and their life and got the thing and learn the rules and is clearly putting a lot of time into it and really wants to go well for the for their friends. And so, you, listen, your friends are coming in, they're gonna, you know, put on a costume, they're gonna roleplay, they're gonna put themselves a little bit out there and, and it's all in service of like the group fun that you are holding up together.


Eric: I wonder what genre this is? Well, what would be the most out there genre for murder mystery?


Amanda: Food reality show. 


Eric: [Laughs] That would be really good.


Amanda: That would be my fantasy.


Eric: Oh, that would be really good, I didn't want to say like wildest or worst because I like I'm like "what would be fun if someone did." The one that I was thinking was like 1950s High School homecoming.


Amanda: Hmmm, very good.


Eric: 1950 stuff but also like this there's like a sports element to it, I think would be fun.


Amanda: That's fun. I also just want to see someone like dress up their toddler as an alien or something and like have an extraterrestrial involved.


Eric: Yeah, pretty cool. So that, it could be 1960s Roswell. That'd be fun. I do love myself a political satire from the 1960s and 70s.


Amanda: Eric, you want to finish off with the cheating scandal question?


Eric: Ah, yes, I do. You know, I do. I always do.


Amanda: This is of the - 


Eric: I love the - I'm here for the drama! Give me the drama, please.


Amanda: Drama, please!


Eric: Drama please!


Amanda: So this question is from Dear Pay Dirt. So Slate - 


Eric: [Laughing] Oh, I forgot!


Amanda: Slate, the journalism company, you'll hear on The Replay should you join the Patreon at patreon.com/gamesandfeelings, has fully doubled down on like, they've fully pivoted their business model to advice columns only. On the success of Dear Prudence.


Eric: It's like kind of podcasts and advice columns only, that's all that's going on on Slate.


Amanda: Yeah. And so in 2021, they started one called Dear Pay Dirt for money questions. And this one says...


Eric: This is a terrible name for this column,


Amanda: Yeah, it is bad.


Eric: This is the second time we've done a Pay Dirt question. And the first time I'm like, "why would you willingly allow yourself to be called paydirt?" Now, what I'm thinking about what, think about all the puns you could make about getting advice about money?


Amanda: Mhm. They didn't do any of them. 


Eric: They didn't do any of them! None.


Amanda: So...


Eric: Write in below, get in the comments, and tell me the pun that it should be. Oh, God, it could have just been like, ask, Ask a Fun Accountant. Ask a Money Person. 


Amanda: That's true. Money guys.


Eric: Money guys! It could have been anything.


Amanda: [Laughs] So this question from 2021 says, "Dear paydirt, my office has set up a small chess tournament."


Eric: [Laughs] As you do, as we all.


Amanda:  "While not directly part of the competition, a lot of people involved have been laying down wagers -"


Eric: Of course.


Amanda: "For their individual scheduled games."


Eric: Oh, wait, they're betting on their own games? 


Amanda: Yes. 


Eric: That's lit - guys. [Amanda laughs] Rule of betting! That's literally the one. There's two rules of betting, one, you can't, it's illegal to bet on yourself, and two, pay the big back before your legs get broke. That's it. 


Amanda: Yeah. 


Eric: Oh, God.


Amanda: The question asker is gonna double down here by saying "I've been made quite a few offers myself but haven't initiated any. I don't have any objections to gambling in theory. But in this particular case, there's an issue. I'm an FIDE International master."


Eric: [Laughs] This person's incredible at chess. Do they know that?


Amanda: "If you don't play chess, consider my chess playing ability on par with a good minor league player of the sport of your choice." 


Eric: Yes, that - Hey, can I shout out question asker for correctly identifying the way to orient this. 


Amanda: Yeah. 


Eric: That like they're not even saying like, "Oh, I played college ball." It's someone who is professionally playing at a minor league status. Mwah, 100 points to question asker, whatever you say is correct.


Amanda: They further specify that "that means I'm not good enough to compete in a top tier professional setting, but still orders of magnitude better than casual players."


Eric: Perfect. 


Amanda: "Quite simply accepting a bet from my coworkers is just taking their money. I've tried to mention this a few times. And each time it's been shrugged off as me simply trying to intimidate and undermine confidence. [Eric laughs] Is it all right to agree to a bet for cash when you know with about as perfect certainty that you can, that you're going to win?" And then it's signed, 'Not wanting GM to stand for Gauche master.'


Eric: Okay, I thought this was going to be a Pete Rose issue. For those who don't know, Pete Rose thrown out of baseball for betting on games that he was in, and whether or not he was shaving points, whether or not he was pushing it one way or another. There's a big thing happening in basketball as well, how one ref and maybe all of the refs are involved in various cheating scandals. 


Amanda: Oh no!


Eric: They have pushed games, in one way or another. I thought we were talking about that, that people have been betting on themselves and then are going to take a dive. Just to make the money, and then it's gonna ruin morale of the office 


Amanda: Yeah, because you bet when you can't determine the outcome. If you can determine the outcome, you can't bet


Eric: If people are betting you that you're going to lose and you're a master and you tell them "I'm quite good at chess," and they say, "Hmm, I don't think so." Take their money. 


Amanda: Yeah, just be like, "okay!"


Eric: All right! And then it goes, becomes, [Wooshing sounds] checkmate. I love that!


Amanda: I love that too.


Eric: I love that, take their money! [Laughs] Funny, again, the types of people who - I love you question asker. I already said you're great. You're very nice. Who are the people who write into advice columns? 


Amanda: Yeah.


Eric: Again, they just needed, they have no one else to talk to about this. And they want affirmation. I also probably, I also feel bad for question asker because I bet some people have told them in their lives that it's immoral to take their money, to take these idiots, these boobs money. 


Amanda: This feels - yeah.


Eric: And I feel, I feel a real bummer for them, that they don't have people in their lives who want them to succeed, have fun, and kick ass.


Amanda: Yeah, GM feels like they've really thought this through and be like, "I think I've made my best efforts here" and like wants to double check with somebody and either they haven't checked with somebody and are embarrassed and ask a stranger on the internet instead, or, Yes, someone in their life was like, "I don't think so." And they're like, "I'm pretty sure it's okay." So...


Eric: [Mock voice.] "Betting is always immoral, especially if you know the outcome and that's not what Jesus would say, so, nehnehnehnehn." That's it. And that's where their, their sister-in-law sounds like.


Amanda: Exactly.


Eric: Yeah. 


Amanda: Do you want to know what Slate's columnist Athena Valentine had to say?


Eric: Call yourself Athena Valentine! Don't call yourself Pay Dirt! Your name is great. Yes. Athena, get in, get in the comments.


Amanda: Alright. So the first half was probably from Slate's legal department, "FYI, this might be illegal. Laying down wagers is considered gambling and illegal at work in most states." 


Eric: That's, that's actually very important. I should have thought of this. Because there's a whole thing about this is a big thing about March Madness tournaments that like, although people just kind of do it, there's, unless everyone's like, on the same page. Yeah, people would get really mad at you if you took their money, even though you told them many times that you would, you took their money, and then they might like, tell the cops or your boss, because again, you're in an office environment, and people will screw you!


Amanda: Yes. 


Eric: Because you're not actually friends. You just go to the same job.


Amanda: Exactly. Athena said, for example, "if it's illegal, and you don't want to seem like a party pooper, continue to just say you're not going to participate. Because if someone were to report this, you need to be as far away as possible." So good, cover your bases. But then the rest of the advice was, if you're in the clear, take people's money, do it. "Like Liam Neeson in Taken, you warn them that you had a very particular set of skills, so the joke's on them. If you feel super guilty, you can always put some of your winnings toward an office treat like lunch or doughnuts one day, go get them."


Eric: It's like, "oh, you rubes. I just wanted to take your money and turn it into fried treats."


Amanda: Yeah. It's really, it's really wise. A source we love to go to for The Replay is Ask a Manager, all about work and work questions and problems. And there is real like, again, no one at work is your friend. Sorry to say they're, they're just also go there. 


Eric: And will step on your head to get a promotion, because that's what capitalism engenders in us as we go to work.


Amanda: Right. And so if you make money on these people who you warned, they are going to feel bad about it, because no one's your friend. They're just themselves. And so buying everybody, like nice cookies the next day, you know, is not a bad strategy.


Eric: 100%. I've been thinking a lot about like, I don't know a better way to say this. But like the gamification of being nice in a high stakes environment. How like people literally, if they're not doing it in their head - have you ever played like an RPG, where there's like a good and evil system, like if you played Fable, or like Mass Effect, where you get like, you're a good guy or a bad guy, depending on what your actions are, or you're like your dialogue choices. And I feel like you know, it's like, "oh, you kicked a chicken, negative 10 points," or "you help the child plus 20 good points." And then you have that adjusting thing. It really feels like that at work. Like people who get such a limited window of you and see you only in the singular dimension, I think do calculate whether or not they know they're doing it. But it's like plus or minus points. And like you can really erase things that you think you're embarrassed about just by smoothing it over with like, one nice thing. 


Amanda: Yeah.


Eric: This person is embarrassed by this, they're being put in a situation they need to ask for help. They've probably been like stewing about it for days, maybe they've lost sleep over it. 


Amanda: I know, they're like "Aaah I should have called in sick!"


Eric: But right after this is done, if there's a problem, you buy cookies, and then it's boom, it's erased. 


Amanda: Yeah.


Eric: It's 100 points down. 100 points up, you know what I mean? It really just is that simple. And I think about that a lot. And how being nice in an office environment sometimes feels like social engineering, how like you literally are quote unquote, 'hacking the system' to get what you want, just by moderating your real self to be palatable enough to get ahead in business or office culture. And it really feels like yeah, 'I guess I gotta, I gotta grind nice points so that I get in line to get a promotion and get $10,000 more on my next salary when hopefully I can get a promotion.' 


Amanda: Yeah, it's, it's really clear reading 'Ask a Manager' which I - listen if you're not super into advice columns, that's a really fun and good one to read. It's well organized, there are lots of follow ups, which is like the, mwah, deliciousness of advice, you know, paraphernalia out in the world. I don't know why I said paraphernalia, like I'm a cop in the 90s,


Eric: Hey, kids, you want to smoke drugs and read an advice column about jobs?


Amanda: [Laughs] It's because I just read a book about the history of the completely fake book 'Go Ask Alice' it was, it was a blast.


Eric: Oh, yeah. So you, you have have fake drug paraphernalia on the brain. 


Amanda: Yes. But listen, like in a in a job they, they try to various levels, various employers to like make it feel like you're all there - to like not acknowledge the thing that you're only there for money. And -


Eric: Right. That's the, that's the thing. "We're all a family" discounts the reason or when someone says, Oh, you're just saying it for the money I'm like, yeah at my job, that you make me come to an exchange for a salary. 


Amanda: Yeah, it's not a family relationship, on a romantic relationship. It's not a you know, a friendship where you know, you are you're there and you're like commitment means something and like the years you weren't together like it's out of will. That's not how it is. And sort of acknowledging the the bare facts of the situation that like you are here for money, and you can quit or you could get fired. And like that always is the logical extension of like anything good or bad at the end of the day at a job. Like it has an effect on things and ignoring it like only does yourself a disservice as a worker, because, you know, people who own the means of production are always going to have more power over you than you.


Eric: Absolutely. I like how we always just dive into work advice. Whenever we do these.


Amanda: Yeah, I was thinking about that. I'm like, you know, we thought this, when talking about the show, I was like, "Oh, Eric, you sould do an advice show about games, that would be really fun. And I think you have a good things to say." And then also, I think it's a good place to get our thoughts on sort of working and lives and identity and all the aspects that make a modern person, like so we play games to either play out dynamics in our real lives that we can sort of change or alter or spend time with, or to escape our lives. And both of those things have value, both those things have meaning. And, you know, games are made by people, for people to use in the rest of our lives. Like it's never without social context.


Eric: That's very smart.


Amanda: Thanks hon. 


Eric: That was a good thing you said. 


Amanda: Thanks honeybun.


Eric: Good job. Hey, do you want to plug where people can find you on the internet?


Amanda: Yeah, I'm @ShesSoMickey. And uh...


Eric: And she is incredibly Mickey.


Amanda: I am, on - 


Eric: On Twitter and Instagram.


Amanda: On Twitter and Instagram. And...


Eric: You'll see all the all the pictures of our wedding.


Amanda: Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna post pictures till people are sick of me. Cuz I've -


Eric: Afterwards because it's just going to push through and get to another layer.


Amanda: Exactly. And I am podcasting every week over at Join the Party and Spirits. So come find me. 


Eric: Wow, that sounds great. 


Amanda: Thank you.


Eric: And you're also CEO of Multitude. 


Amanda: That's true. 


Eric: Thanks for making this a viable place to work. 


Amanda: You know, Eric, try every day. And every time we answer a work question, I'm like, Hmmm. [Both laugh] Hope - hope this isn't Eric writing in to an advice column.


Eric: I'm not - I don't need to! I'm not that guy. 


Amanda: Thank you. 


Eric: You just did that to get me, I know you did. 


Amanda: I know.


Eric: Well, if you want more chances to find to find wedding photos from us. You can check me out at -


Amanda: Oh, guys, we're coordinating our content strategy. Don't worry about it. We're not gonna spam you the same photos from the same accounts. You got to follow both of us for the full picture.


Eric: Oh. [Laughs] I was like, "oh, no, we're gonna have to do content strategy work when we're on vacation. We're not doing this." Yes, we're recording this ahead of time. So the wedding hasn't happened yet, but it will. Thank you so much, Amanda for doing this with me. I really appreciate it. 


Amanda: Welcome, honey. 


Eric: So you can check me out on Twitter @el_silvero. E-L underscore S-I-L-V-E-R-O, my name If I was a lucha libre  wrestler. And you can find the show @GamesNFeelings on Twitter. It's n, like Linens n' Things because Twitter wouldn't let me do that all the way. But you can also find us on Instagram as well. The links are in the episode description. The best place to submit questions is to go to our website, gamesandfeelings.com. And there's a question button. But you could also put in the website gamesandfeelings.com/questions. And you can support the show at Patreon at patreon.com/gamesandfeelings and get all the episodes of The Replay, which there are just as many episodes of that as there are episodes of Games and Feelings and it's really good. I think you'll really enjoy it. You just get it for $5, that's it. That's a deal. That's a steal.


Amanda: It's a, it's a whole nother podcast where you can hear Eric and me talking about advice columns of yore and things going on in our lives every other week, it's great. I love the time.


Eric: That's weekly Games and Feelings content. 


Amanda: Yeah!


Eric: That's incredible.


Amanda: $5, double your podcast output, you know? 


Eric: Double the flavor, double the fun. 


Amanda: Mhm.


Eric:  Thank you, Amanda. And remember the instruction manual and old advice columns don't really have anything about feelings.

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